The Great Debate on Immigration

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1st Official Post
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    Should widespread immigration be curbed? 16

    1. Yes - all immigration numbers must come down. (14) 88%
    2. No - allow however many immigrants want to come. (0) 0%
    3. Yes, partially. We should only have those who we need to fill skill's shortages. (5) 31%
    4. No, it'll be pointless now. The stable door has been open for too long. (0) 0%
    5. Don't know (0) 0%
    6. Don't care (0) 0%

    Is it now time to curb widespread immigration?


    Update 22 June 2017


    Biggest rise in population in 70 years


    According to ONS figures, our population has risen by more than half a million in just a year. Over the last 11 years, the population has risen by five million. Today the official UK population stands at 65,648,000 people. The official figures do not count the "undocumented" aka the illegal immigrants. I believe the UK population is already at or near 70 million today.


    Supposedly with Brexit we can "take back control." Seeing is believing. There won't an indigenous British population left at this rate to take the control back.


    White British people are already a minority in London, our capital city, how much longer will it be before the British people become the minority in our own country?

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    The big problem we have is that uncontrolled immigration is putting a huge burden on our NHS, schools, housing, social care and other public services, and we simply do not have the resources to cope.


    We need to control immigration so that anyone wishing to reside here should prove that they have a job offer and will not require State benefits. Those not intending to reside should be required to provide proof that they have health insurance and this should be recorded on a database so that hospitals can ascertain quickly that an individual has the necessary cover before treatment, as happens in other countries. Those two things alone would have a big impact on our ability to sustain our public services, and hopefully the powers that be in Government are already working on practical ways of not only regulating the flow of immigration, but also how to avoid knock on costs which disadvantage taxpayers.


    However, I think that trying to put a figure on the numbers let in is probably the wrong approach. Provided the right criteria is used on who comes in, the numbers should largely regulate themselves.

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    I agree old boy, you can't put a arbitrary figure on it.


    As you say, our services are crumbling. But the elites just don't seem to understand that or care.


    A top doctor said that before people come to this country and as part of the their visa application process, they must have health insurance or a means to pay.


    I don't know if you saw the first episode of that BBC programme "Hospital" which has caused all the outrage over the past few weeks and that Nigerian woman.... It's on player, if you haven't.

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    I just posted this over at The Times which I'm copying here. They've been getting all my best posts these last few days!:


    I reckon we need a wholesale change of our immigration policy which many will consider hard line.


    Citizenship should only be given in exceptional circumstances and never immediate.


    In many countries around the world, you can never be a citizen of that country and even if your children are born in that country, they are not entitled to it either. That's what needs to happen here.


    So, any newcomers we allow in, become Residents but not citizens, the same applies if their children are born here.


    If these Residents obey our laws, adhere to our customs and traditions, then there should be pathway to citizenship for them. But, "all" should not be treated equally.


    There would be different tiers, ie Tier 1 would be those coming from Aus,NZ,Canada & America. Tier 2: Western Europe. Tier 3: Eastern Europe etc.


    So, Tier 1 Residents would have a far easier pathway to citizenship than the lowest tier.


    Do this and it will stop many of the problems.


    We can not deport "foreigners" with ISIS links, as an example, if they're born here. And if they're origins are from here, they should be treated as traitors and dealt with by whatever the law deems correct.

    The way people complain about 'mass' immigration, you'd think they hadn't ever looked into the facts of the case, in that - outside the European Economic Area - all entry is decided according to UK Immigration Rules, decided by Parliament and enforced by the Home Office and FCO. The rules vary according to the potential entrant's nationality, purpose and duration of stay, among other things. The tabloid BS about any 'open door' immigration policy has been one of the most dishonest, most dangerous and most poisonous elements of recent political discourse.

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    The open door policy was not a invention of the tabloids, but of Tony's Blair's policy unit. When I find the link, I'll post it here. What is shocking is that same policy has been carried on with by the then coalition and now conservative governments.


    If we do not have a open door policy to non-EU immigration, why do we have so many people from African and Asian countries on benefits and have no job?


    A certain fire in a certain tower block illustrated this perfectly. And before I get blasted by some people, the loss of life was terrible and disgusting, it should not have happened to anyone. Specifically it should not have happened to those residents of that tower block, because many of them should not have been here to begin with.

    There is no excuse for irresponsible immigration policies. They always end in conflict. Anywhere in the world. It isn't a white thing, it's just a fact.

    Is It Now Time To Curb Widespread Immigration? No. The time to curb it was in 1997 when Blair opened the doors and invited the world to come here.


    Now is the time to stop immigration entirely for at least 5 years except for immigrants with skills we can't do without and a few genuine refugees and humanitarian cases. Meanwhile we need to begin deportation of illegals, over stayers, failed asylum seekers and others who have no right to be here.

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    Quote from Morgan

    Is It Now Time To Curb Widespread Immigration? No. The time to curb it was in 1997 when Blair opened the doors and invited the world to come here.


    Now is the time to stop immigration entirely for at least 5 years except for immigrants with skills we can't do without and a few genuine refugees and humanitarian cases. Meanwhile we need to begin deportation of illegals, over stayers, failed asylum seekers and others who have no right to be here.

    It's such a simple thing Morgan, yet that is considered by many to be extreme even though most countries do this.


    If there are overstayers, ie lots of students, people who can't or won't find work, failed asylum seekers etc, why the hell are they here?


    Obviously from 97 onwards, was the open door policy, but I would have gone back decades earlier and been far stricter and choosier about who we let in.

    And just in time to illustrate the stupidity of it all today we have this.


    Housing crisis threatens a million families with eviction by 2020


    Report shows combination of low wages, freezes to benefits and rising costs of renting could cause more than 1 million households to become homeless


    https://www.theguardian.com/so…rty-homeless-shelter-rent


    On present figures, between now and the time the millionth family gets evicted, about another 1 million people will have been added to our population by mass immigration. Absolute lunacy.

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    I thought I had a poll to this topic before, but as all polls were lost when we got the new software, let's try again.


    Please go back to the first post and cast your vote!

    I'll extend my answer to include skills and labour shortage - I have no problem shipping in immigrant workers for low skilled jobs if required, all that is needed is control. You see this all over the world in places we have no problem doing business with and buying huge quantities of products from e.g. Taiwan and S Korea, so why we feel we can't do it here is beyond strange.

    Quote from hoxton_hockler

    I'll extend my answer to include skills and labour shortage - I have no problem shipping in immigrant workers for low skilled jobs if required, all that is needed is control. You see this all over the world in places we have no problem doing business with and buying huge quantities of products from e.g. Taiwan and S Korea, so why we feel we can't do it here is beyond strange.

    I am in general agreement with what you say Hockler - other than I prefer that immigrants are allowed in to fulfill our skilled shortage needs.....when it comes to none, or lowed skilled immigrants, I believe we should do a bit more to encourage the many British low skilled residents currently unemployed before filling those vacancies with immigrants.....even though evidence suggests that immigrant workers are more diligent.

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    I see no reason at all to import low skilled workers from abroad. We should train who we have here. Although, as you say, foreign workers are more diligent, the term Polish Plumber has become the norm here in London now. Try getting a English plumber and for a reasonable price...

    In my view the only way to promote tolerance is to be accepting of each other. By and large white British people are are already tolerant and as such do not need to learn from other cultures, especially from one where intolerance is rife in their home countries.

    I am sure Anna Soubry meant no offence and what she implies is well intentioned, but what she fails to recognise is that Indigenous people, whether we like it or not, will feel aggrieved when things that are both culturally and environmentally, have been changed, through force from the establishment, and as such comments like the ones Soubry made are unhelpful.

    I think it's common amongst MP's though. They seem to be trying to speak out for ethnics and minorities as if deliberately trying to alienate the majority. This in part is what caused the Brexit vote, because for too long communities of white, working class people seemed to feel excluded at the expense of migrants. Whether this was actually true is another issue, but Nigel Farage, like him or loathe him, seemed to be able to grasp the way people were feeling and what he said resonated with them. Of course some of his actions were highly inappropriate and the infamous poster released the morning of Jo Cox's death was one such action. But on the whole, Farage "got" people. He understood them. That's why UKIP soared, that's why Brexit won.

    Our MP's are trying too hard to be something for everyone and they are losing the battle with the voter. On the one hand you have Sarah Champion, brave enough to acknowledge that there's a problem with SOME Muslim men as they target white British girls to groom and rape. On the other hand you have Anna Soubry saying we (white people) should learn from Muslims - which does come across as patronising and tokenistic, and then you have Corbyn saying we mustn't address issues that Muslims create as white people create issues too.

    It's interesting that Broxstowe's mayor is Muslim, which suggests the "very white" constituents are not shallow enough to consider the colour of a persons skin or the religious belief of a person when they cast their votes. Therefore, I'd say Ms. Soubry could actually learn a great deal about her very own constituents. I'd also say that by and large, outside the big cities cross the UK, most people are "very white" but I hope no apology is required for being so, because it is becoming the norm now for white people to be criticised purely for their skin colour and religious belief and the way we culturally behave.

    Tolerance is alive and well in this country and by MP's undermining the majority of the people who vote for them and sticking up for an ethnic group - when it isn't really necessary, they create intolerance and division where before people didn't spend too long thinking about such things. It's all rather bizarre really.


    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/…the-country-a-better-plac

    e-tory-mp-claims/


    I know it's from "The Sun", but I tend to make my own judgements when it comes to what is credible and what isn't, and whilst some of The Sun is trash, much of it isn't.

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    Just reading The Sun article, Wizzy, will comment in a minute. I've got to go for a bit, but I think she is saying that Muslims stick together and we could learn from that.


    Give me 20 mins and I'll be back.

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    I think she is just making a very general point, wizzy, that we used to be a Christian country and communities used to stick together and now we don't. Whereas the Muslin community do stick together. I'm not sure if she is advocating a return to the Christian way of doing things, I've got better things to do with my time than visit a church on Sunday, especially now the weather is getting cold. Just a general point that we all should stick together.


    MPs can be very PC, but I don't think that was her intent this time.


    Quote from hoxton_hockler

    Can't stand bigots like Soubry.

    She believes what she believes and stands by them. I'm not keen on as she is such a stuanch remainer, but she sticks to her guns.

    Quote from Horizon

    Just reading The Sun article, Wizzy, will comment in a minute. I've got to go for a bit, but I think she is saying that Muslims stick together and we could learn from that.


    Give me 20 mins and I'll be back.

    I think it's tone and language that is on trial rather than the content. Anna Soubry has already caused controversy by insulting her constituents for voting leave. She publicly said that her friend's business might fail if she (her friend) was unable to employ Eastern Europeans. I do get that faith is misunderstood, but whilst suggesting Muslims stick together, she is inadvertently advocating a divided "them and us" society. Brits do stick together and we are not as divided as MP's like to pretend we are. After all, in a democracy there will always be issues that divide us. And, the dimishing of our faith may also contribute to a lack of understanding towards other cultures.


    I think MP's though, need to be careful about how they say things, because whilst they are clearly appeasing ethnic groups, they risk alienating their core white voters. The very same voters who felt aggrieved enough to vote leave to begin with.

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