The Great Debate on Immigration

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  • On the topic of Muslims who have seemingly been in places outside Saudi Arabia seemingly forever. This is not true, They were invaders, conquerors and many were converted. The old eastern Bloc states are full of simmering religious stress on this account. Islam is a relatively new religion, based on a combination of Judaism and Christianity by a self appointed prophet. It is seven centuries behind Christianity which is a Judaic sect. The fact that any of these wretched belief systems exist in such huge numbers today is the result of enforced conversion and the development of extreme forms of the creeds.

    Islam is incompatible with Christianity and this is why the two have been enemies since the Crusades. I'm not sticking up for either of them, they are both alien belief systems to anyone outside the Middle East.

    If something isn't done to stop the spread of madness that tends to grow out of monolithic cults then humanity at large is in dire straits. The same goes for political cults like Marxism and its manifestations. And racism at the other end, is not ethno-centrism, incidentally. It is a mental disorder based in paranoia and acquired paranoia but it can be used to set people against one another purely on its own account.

    Ethno-centric concerns, on the other hand, are very real and quite normal among humans, especially in modern times when so little of most of them are left and many have vanished completely into the glare of the horde.

    If this is an unpopular view, or makes some folk gag with false moral supremacy, I do not apologise. The remnants of the Earth deserve at least a few supporters.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • The Rohingya are "traipsing" around as you put it, because they are being exterminated and driven from their homes.

    The world needs another Islamic subgroup or tribe pursuing their very own identity and values, like a hole in the head. It is impossible to have a live-and-let-live policy when such a group insist upon maintaining, even asserting their identity on the rest of their host country, be it Myanmar or Burma (overridingly Buddhist) or even Bangladesh (overridingly Muslim with the usual hostility to minority Muslim tribes that seek a higher profile). The Middle and Far East is ridiculously tribal and intolerant to minority religions, especially those which are unable or unwilling to assimilate into their host country's society and even more especially those who are procreating at an alarming rate (Rohingyas are having almost half as many again children as Myanmar as a whole).

    From a Rohingya Muslim standpoint, there is no safety in numbers, quite the opposite. They would be better off trying to survive individually (or with their wife), abandon their religious identity and get to a country where they won't stick out like a sore thumb. But how to achieve that? For a start, don't bring a child into the world - which is a mad and bad decision. Of course, if they are educationally and linguistically limited or handicapped, they don't stand a chance of surviving either individually or with the rest of their bedraggled group.

    I would like to see refugee centres dotted around the globe which are non-denominational, where religious outward identities and observances are banned, as well as procreation. I genuinely believe that it is only on that secularised basis that such camps can provide food, medicine and, above all, education, that will give their guests a chance to have a life.

    I believe what the Christian world is doing at present is just puffed up moralising, useless hand ringing or crocodile tears. It offends and upsets me greatly.

    • Staff Notice

    Rob, it's valid points you raise about different tribes, minority groups, but you do your arguments disservice by referring to people who are being burnt out of their homes and slaughtered, as traipsing around. I am sure, on reflection, you would've chosen different terms.

    Perhaps we can pick these points up in another thread at some point, as this thread is predominately about those in the UK rather than elsewhere.

  • Thanks for the background history what you quite rightly describe as "wretched belief systems" . Your suggested explanation of how they develop rings true but I think there is another motivations, which is the need for affiliation, which all too often these days encompasses or mutates into an almost narcissistic obsession with self-identity. Transgenderism is the latest example, albeit more a pathetic nuisance than a danger to life and limb - although some girly men might in a virile pub on a Saturday night receive an evidence-seeking (deserved?) kick in the crutch .

    You talk of the need to halt the "spread of madness that tends to grow out of monolithic cults". Personally I think you are defining religion per se. That spread of madness is just extremism or fanaticism. Even Judaism has its fanatical mutations, such as the Jew who shot Rabin to prevent healing the long-standing rift between Palestinians and Israel and orthodox Jews who throw stones at ambulances moving through Jerusalem streets on Saturday before sundown.

    As for Marxism, maybe it is a political cult but at least it has an economic-societal principle, mostly about an exaggerated utilitarian method of redistributing wealth. I suspect these days it's just an over-reacted antidote to the ugly face of capitalism and won't get anywhere (unless Theresa May fights the next General Election .....aaaaarrrrgh!)

    I disagree with you that racism is a mental disorder. Everything can be described as a mental disorder if you choose a cut-off point at the very extreme of the normal curve. "Jews are alight but I don't want my my daughter to marry one" versus "The Jewish Holocaust was a bit excessive but they were asking for it weren't they". Both these remarks indicate of racism - the second one to a horrifically greater degree. But neither is a mental disorder. Perhaps we get closer to a mental disorder if a German says "look at my lovely lampshade, it's made from Jewish skin from Belsen". Once racism is defined as a mental disorder it slips into the "Gee Oficer Krupke" syndrome. Why not denounce it as just evil or immoral.

    You could even argue that racism is a normal consequence of ethno-centricity being taken too far. And who is to say where the cut off point should be? It is human natural to make judgements based on stereotypes. It is based on probabilities rather than certainties. Its the way society operates in marketing and advertising, employment recruitment, security checks, credit scoring etc.

    Maybe your views are unpopular in many quarters. We live in a world of bullsh##., political correctness and pseudo liberalism, euphemised as "popular democracy". Where would we be without a few polemicists?!



    I previously ended this reply by saying I don't know who patted your head with ...."Your youth and inexperience are your greatest enemies at present. Wait until the years have given you a longer perspective on this day" .... but I suggest you ignore him!

    I subsequently noticed that this weird/silly/pompous/Chinese cookie proverb is at the end of ALL Little Wing's flutterings. So I guess it's Little Wing's sign off. With pearls of wisdom like that I withdraw the suggestion that the lady is a polemicist!

  • :?:

    You quoted that I wrote that. l did not write it, you apparently did.

    Why are you going for me?

    The quote under my posts is from one of my books. I don't find it anything other than realistic, which is why I used it.

    Kindly don't refer to my posts as "flutterings", only a fool might do that. If ever you chose the wrong target, it is this one. Go and find yourself another target, before I start thinking that someone has filled the hole in your little wooden head with lies. If this is so, then I'm sorry because I did think you were a good writer but I see that you are just another little internet warrior.

    Are you going to piss on everyone's signature, or am I a special case?

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

    • Staff Notice

    Mod note:

    @Rob Alka , please learn to use the quoting features here correctly.

    I spent 15 minutes yesterday reediting your post to show your replies under my quoted text. You must not give the impression that someone has quoted something, when they have not, hence the importance of learning to use the quoting tool correctly. I sent you a message yesterday helping you with using the quoting feature, contact me if you need more help, but do not repeat putting your words within another member's quote box again.

    I will now edit your last post you to correctly reflect that you said those words, not Little Wing.

    • Staff Notice

    The UK's population is set to exceed 70 million before the end of the next decade, according to the Office for National Statistics.

    The UK population was estimated to stand at 65.6 million in 2016.

    Was tempted to create a separate thread on this, but as these sort of issues will likely fall into the realms that this central thread covers, I've stuck this story here.

    Some interesting things in the article like life expectancy growth has been trimmed, but the UK will still pass the 70 million barrier in 2029, albeit two years later than earlier forecasts.

    Forecasts for net migration has also been cut down to 165k a year. Let me say that again: 165 thousand people.

    The BBC like others, roll off these figures like this is an absolute, but who says this should remain so?

    Isn't it about time that rather than saying net migration of 165 thousand people is the norm, we start saying the opposite and say there is noting normal about such a high figure?

  • Immigration at that rate is one perilous thing, the resulting expansion from childbirth to that population is what will kill you all off as an ethnic species and remove your power to govern yourselves once this catastrophe begins to use democracy against you. And democracy works very well against liberty, all you need, initially, is greater numbers and you have your oppressive theocracy, ideology or personality cult in the bag. Ask anyone who has experienced this. It's a doddle.

    And, to quote Forrest Gump's mother: "Stupid is as stupid does."

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • If it were England's Day it would be celebrated with gusto. George is a patron saint of Asia Minor and so has nothing whatsoever to do with England.

    What has the Saint's birthplace got to do with it??? For example, the birthplace of St Patrick is not specifically 'known , and apparently, most historians appear to believe that he was born in Kilpatrick, near Dumbarton in Scotland.

    A Patron, is a person chosen as a special guardian and King Edward , in 1350, seemingly chose to adopt the mythical George as the patron saint of England - and why not? - dragons are 'mythical' too!!

  • What has the Saint's birthplace got to do with it??? For example, the birthplace of St Patrick is not specifically 'known , and apparently, most historians appear to believe that he was born in Kilpatrick, near Dumbarton in Scotland.

    A Patron, is a person chosen as a special guardian and King Edward , in 1350, seemingly chose to adopt the mythical George as the patron saint of England - and why not? - dragons are 'mythical' too!!

    For me, George is not an Englishman so should not be the patron of England. For me, there are no such things as "saints", so I don't care how many lies and fabrications are woven round "St" George, he is simply not a fit symbol or icon for the English.

    Dragons are some of my favourite mythical creatures and I think dragon slayers are scum. Goodbye George, killer of dragons. In the next life, I hope the dragons find their revenge.

    But, on the subject of nations and symbols, the English nationalists (at least the ones who are Anglo-Saxon) use the white dragon on a red flag. This I accept. And today, those of us who are English Nationalists to the core identify one another by this symbol. I know the rest of the mob won't accept it as they will be far more entranced by the Turkish soldier called George, or whatever he was before he became a "saint". But for those of us who are Anglo-Saxon in identity, the white dragon is as significant to us as the red dragon is to the Welsh.

    White Dragon link

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • So the British Empire never celebrated British culture when outside Britain?

    What about all that "White man's burden" "Civilizing the heathen" stuff?

    In the words of Archbishop Desmond Tutu:

    "When the white man came to Africa, the white man had the Bible and the black man had the land.

    Then we closed out eyes in prayer.

    And when we opened our eyes, the black had the Bible and the white man had the land".

  • That's perfectly true, Plastic. Irony is the outcome of so much arrogant ambition and thoughtless enforcement.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

    • Staff Notice

    So the British Empire never celebrated British culture when outside Britain?

    Indeed it did, but this thread is for talking about current issues within Britain, not past issues anywhere else.

    What don't you start a thread about this yourself and we can talk about it there? There isn't a thread about the British Empire on this site yet.

  • Well you are clearly entitled to your opinion LW, but there is certainly no hard and fast rule wrt adopting a 'national saint' as Patron - they merely have to be 'identified' with the characteristics, mythical or otherwise which the adopting nation wish to project.

    In any event, there are several countries, not just England, that have adopted St George as their patron saint , including Portugal, Malta, Venice, Ethiopia, Georgia, and Lithuania.

    Quite like that white dragon though......

  • My post doesn't just reflect my opinion or feelings, it is part of the English National movement and cause that tends to be more underground than above as we are not the flavour ethnicity of the times. The white dragon is our symbol of who we are, and were, what we identify with and apart from that, its just a beautiful emblem of our ancestral mindset.

    I am radical revolutionary when it comes to ethnic matters and will support anyone from anywhere who holds similar views for their folk. I am broad minded about much else. When it comes to picking up the fallen torch of our past reality, I will get stuck into the fray, and have. I feel I owe it to my forebears who were courageous and true, both Nordic and Germanic. But this sort of thing nauseates liberals, so I have stopped saying things about our folk as the atmosphere is redolent with seething aggro whenever anyone dares to mention the big "E", or its dragon. 8)

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

    • Staff Notice

    Not enough is being done to find almost 56,000 absconded foreign nationals due to be deported, a report has said.

    The Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration said efforts to monitor a further 80,000 foreign offenders and illegal immigrants was being "seriously compromised" by Home Office failings.

    Forget Brexit for a moment, as this has nothing to do with that.

    So, there are literally thousands of foreign criminals on our streets who should be deported. Why aren't they, then?

    What is going wrong in this country?

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