The Great Debate on Immigration

Quote from Little Wing

My post doesn't just reflect my opinion or feelings, it is part of the English National movement and cause that tends to be more underground than above as we are not the flavour ethnicity of the times. The white dragon is our symbol of who we are, and were, what we identify with and apart from that, its just a beautiful emblem of our ancestral mindset.

I am radical revolutionary when it comes to ethnic matters and will support anyone from anywhere who holds similar views for their folk. I am broad minded about much else. When it comes to picking up the fallen torch of our past reality, I will get stuck into the fray, and have. I feel I owe it to my forebears who were courageous and true, both Nordic and Germanic. But this sort of thing nauseates liberals, so I have stopped saying things about our folk as the atmosphere is redolent with seething aggro whenever anyone dares to mention the big "E", or its dragon.

Well I certainly hold a great deal of empathy with your views LW - and I consider Blair‘s damaging tenure of office, when he deliberately instigated a policy of ‘ multiculturism’, was a ‘criminal ‘ act. He apparently wished to ‘rub the noses of the Right in diversity’- or something similar.

I have no objection to immigrants who can be considered ‘assets’ to the UK - but are capable of ‘integrating’ with British society, and I do realise that like minded people tend to live in neighbourhoods, as British citizens do in Spain for instance, but not to the extent that they establish ghettos....and, and live in accordance With British law only.

We have an obligation to provide shelter to genuine refugees - but migrants travelling through safe countries to get to the UK are clearly not genuine.

As the UK is a collection of Islands most refugee claims will naturally arrive after passing through safe countries, and to my mind, should be sent back.....but because of this, as Cameron actually did, to ensure that the UK played it’s part in providing safe homes to genuine refugees we should take ‘our share’ direct from the refugee camps .

I fear however that we have already made a rod for our own back as they say.......just like France.

Quote from Stevlin

Well I certainly hold a great deal of empathy with your views LW - and I consider Blair‘s damaging tenure of office, when he deliberately instigated a policy of ‘ multiculturism’, was a ‘criminal ‘ act. He apparently wished to ‘rub the noses of the Right in diversity’- or something similar.

I have no objection to immigrants who can be considered ‘assets’ to the UK - but are capable of ‘integrating’ with British society, and I do realise that like minded people tend to live in neighbourhoods, as British citizens do in Spain for instance, but not to the extent that they establish ghettos....and, and live in accordance With British law only.

We have an obligation to provide shelter to genuine refugees - but migrants travelling through safe countries to get to the UK are clearly not genuine.

As the UK is a collection of Islands most refugee claims will naturally arrive after passing through safe countries, and to my mind, should be sent back.....but because of this, as Cameron actually did, to ensure that the UK played it’s part in providing safe homes to genuine refugees we should take ‘our share’ direct from the refugee camps .

I fear however that we have already made a rod for our own back as they say.......just like France.

Blair was a curse that has had repercussions in a ferocious neo-liberal fascism. I remember calling them liberal democrat extremists years ago but now they are worse and widely spread. There is actually an increasing divide between the old socialist ideologue and the new, brash do-gooder with the mask of a saint and the soul of a backstreet smuggler.

To say I saw Blair as the Beast of the Second Coming is an understatement. Not only did he ruin the Labour Party's working class aspirations for justice, he swindled his way into the Conservative mindset as well. In effect, his crafty bullshitting shattered the old political world for ever and did not replace it with anything workable.

Quote from Horizon

Rob, it's valid points you raise about different tribes, minority groups, but you do your arguments disservice by referring to people who are being burnt out of their homes and slaughtered, as traipsing around. I am sure, on reflection, you would've chosen different terms.

Perhaps we can pick these points up in another thread at some point, as this thread is predominately about those in the UK rather than elsewhere.

Yes, sure, on another thread. Meanwhile, "traipsing" is exactly the right word; look it up in any dictionary. As for burning people out of their homes and/or slaughtering them, obviously there has to be a better way of repelling passive invaders or squatters who expect and demand rights for themselves and their tribe which in religion and values is at complete variance with over 90% of the long-established resident population. Any ideas? "Would you mind terribly going somewhere else?" won't cut it.

Quote from hoxton_hockler

Such a rigid immigration policy would destroy the country. There are a shortage of engineers in a variety of fields right now. Due to EU open borders selective immigration is not possible. With border control we can attract quality engineers from around the world. If we don't do that and sit twiddling our thumbs waiting for enough British engineers to get trained all the firms, including the myriad of smaller ones that no one seems to realise exist, will go overseas.

Obviously we should be giving special treatment to students doing science and technology degrees e.g. reduced fees/maintenance grants but British people are increasingly anti-science these days, and of course they think the arts are far cooler, so that is never going to happen.

Rubbish! What is rigid about ensuring that immigrants allowed into the country are fulfilling 'shortages' cited on the country's list of needs, For instance, what is the point of allowing non-skilled migrants into a country that has over a million non-skilled unemployed??

Educating students, whilst good for the college/university is fine - but that doesn't necessarily equate with qualified students seeking employment in the UK, even though many do.

Incidentally, in case you hadn't noticed, the UK already attracts a significant number of non-EU migrants.....but do you really believe that immigration to the UK can be, or has to be limitless??? At least out of the EU, in theory at least, immigration can be controlled, by restricting migration applicants to the fulfilment of 'needs'......albeit, despite that being the 'theory', it most certainly will not be the practice.

Quote from hoxton_hockler

You seem to be arguing against open borders but have perhaps inadvertently quoted my post which, if read properly, is promoting border controls...

Really? Your post fatuously referred to 'rigid' immigration controls 'ruining' the country! Controlling immigration is both sensible, and responsible - unlike the open door policy practised by the EU federalists. We should indeed be training our own future engineers etc, but we also have a significant input of non-EU migrants from which we can supplement our skilled force......but that area also doesn't appear to be well controlled.

Quote from hoxton_hockler

You seem to be arguing against open borders but have perhaps inadvertently quoted my post which, if read properly, is promoting border controls...

But Horizon didn't reference a 'rigid' immigration system - he wrote about applying controls, to make it a sensible immigration policy - as practised by the majority of countries. Your fatuous comment of ruining the country, apart from not even being supported by a half-baked item of 'evidence', is certainly not illustrated by the countries which operate sensible controls.....but maybe you are happy that unskilled immigrants find residence in a country which has over 1 million unemployed, with the vast majority being low or unskilled .

Quote from Horizon

Ahh... this is the problem about the debate about immigration that two different things get intermingled and messed up with each other.

I have no problem with issuing temporary work permits for skills we need. So, if the government believes it will take 5-10 years to train up a generation of engineers, I don't have a problem with work permits being issued that allows foreigners to come to this country for a limited time to cover the skills we are short in.

The problem is, at the moment, they all stay. Some become citizens, many don't. It's a total mess.

I agree - but we currently don't have a problem with allowing skilled people into the country.......our problem is with those unskilled immigrants. We certainly have enough unskilled residents in the UK.....the problem with some, is getting them willing to work.....

Quote from Horizon

.... simple, send them back to their own countries.

Just so that I am clear, because someone might be deemed to be "skilled" does not mean they should get automatic rights to come and work here. It should be on a case-by-case basis and then and only then, should temporary work permits be issued.

As for unskilled labour, I've made my views perfectly clear on this. There should be zero unskilled labour here.

That however, is one of the reasons for responsibly controlling immigration....as well as having the required skills to assist in skilled shortages, they should also be of good character.