The Great Debate on Immigration

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  • My post doesn't just reflect my opinion or feelings, it is part of the English National movement and cause that tends to be more underground than above as we are not the flavour ethnicity of the times. The white dragon is our symbol of who we are, and were, what we identify with and apart from that, its just a beautiful emblem of our ancestral mindset.


    I am radical revolutionary when it comes to ethnic matters and will support anyone from anywhere who holds similar views for their folk. I am broad minded about much else. When it comes to picking up the fallen torch of our past reality, I will get stuck into the fray, and have. I feel I owe it to my forebears who were courageous and true, both Nordic and Germanic. But this sort of thing nauseates liberals, so I have stopped saying things about our folk as the atmosphere is redolent with seething aggro whenever anyone dares to mention the big "E", or its dragon. 8)

    Well I certainly hold a great deal of empathy with your views LW - and I consider Blair‘s damaging tenure of office, when he deliberately instigated a policy of ‘ multiculturism’, was a ‘criminal ‘ act. He apparently wished to ‘rub the noses of the Right in diversity’- or something similar.

    I have no objection to immigrants who can be considered ‘assets’ to the UK - but are capable of ‘integrating’ with British society, and I do realise that like minded people tend to live in neighbourhoods, as British citizens do in Spain for instance, but not to the extent that they establish ghettos....and, and live in accordance With British law only.

    We have an obligation to provide shelter to genuine refugees - but migrants travelling through safe countries to get to the UK are clearly not genuine.

    As the UK is a collection of Islands most refugee claims will naturally arrive after passing through safe countries, and to my mind, should be sent back.....but because of this, as Cameron actually did, to ensure that the UK played it’s part in providing safe homes to genuine refugees we should take ‘our share’ direct from the refugee camps .

    I fear however that we have already made a rod for our own back as they say.......just like France.

  • Forget Brexit for a moment, as this has nothing to do with that.


    So, there are literally thousands of foreign criminals on our streets who should be deported. Why aren't they, then?


    What is going wrong in this country?

    Its been like that for years, even when we find illegal immigrants or foreign criminals we do sod all about it. Brexit is the right move but no way will it solve everything, we already have a lot of things we could do but don't take advantage of. In fairness a lot of Remainers said this, I never disagreed but I didn't see that as a reason not to do anything.

    • Staff Notice

    Indeed, which is why I said Brexit is nothing to do with this.


    And you are right, it has been going on for years.


    You can just imagine the conversation as the foreign criminal is released from jail:


    Immigration Official: You are now subject to deportation and you must agree to report to a local immigration centre in two weeks. Do you agree?


    Foreign Criminal: I'll be there, trust me.8o


    An absolute joke.:cursing:

  • Well I certainly hold a great deal of empathy with your views LW - and I consider Blair‘s damaging tenure of office, when he deliberately instigated a policy of ‘ multiculturism’, was a ‘criminal ‘ act. He apparently wished to ‘rub the noses of the Right in diversity’- or something similar.

    I have no objection to immigrants who can be considered ‘assets’ to the UK - but are capable of ‘integrating’ with British society, and I do realise that like minded people tend to live in neighbourhoods, as British citizens do in Spain for instance, but not to the extent that they establish ghettos....and, and live in accordance With British law only.

    We have an obligation to provide shelter to genuine refugees - but migrants travelling through safe countries to get to the UK are clearly not genuine.

    As the UK is a collection of Islands most refugee claims will naturally arrive after passing through safe countries, and to my mind, should be sent back.....but because of this, as Cameron actually did, to ensure that the UK played it’s part in providing safe homes to genuine refugees we should take ‘our share’ direct from the refugee camps .

    I fear however that we have already made a rod for our own back as they say.......just like France.

    Blair was a curse that has had repercussions in a ferocious neo-liberal fascism. I remember calling them liberal democrat extremists years ago but now they are worse and widely spread. There is actually an increasing divide between the old socialist ideologue and the new, brash do-gooder with the mask of a saint and the soul of a backstreet smuggler.


    To say I saw Blair as the Beast of the Second Coming is an understatement. Not only did he ruin the Labour Party's working class aspirations for justice, he swindled his way into the Conservative mindset as well. In effect, his crafty bullshitting shattered the old political world for ever and did not replace it with anything workable.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • Rob, it's valid points you raise about different tribes, minority groups, but you do your arguments disservice by referring to people who are being burnt out of their homes and slaughtered, as traipsing around. I am sure, on reflection, you would've chosen different terms.


    Perhaps we can pick these points up in another thread at some point, as this thread is predominately about those in the UK rather than elsewhere.

    Yes, sure, on another thread. Meanwhile, "traipsing" is exactly the right word; look it up in any dictionary. As for burning people out of their homes and/or slaughtering them, obviously there has to be a better way of repelling passive invaders or squatters who expect and demand rights for themselves and their tribe which in religion and values is at complete variance with over 90% of the long-established resident population. Any ideas? "Would you mind terribly going somewhere else?" won't cut it.

    • Staff Notice

    Mod note:


    A reminder: this topic is about Race, Religion and Immigration within the UK.


    There are other threads to discuss issues such as militant Islam in other countries and if no exisitng thread is suitable, members are welcome to create new threads.

    • Staff Notice

    Well I certainly hold a great deal of empathy with your views LW - and I consider Blair‘s damaging tenure of office, when he deliberately instigated a policy of ‘ multiculturism’, was a ‘criminal ‘ act. He apparently wished to ‘rub the noses of the Right in diversity’- or something similar.

    It was one of his advisers who had a open door policy on immigration. That person should've been shot.

    I have no objection to immigrants who can be considered ‘assets’ to the UK - but are capable of ‘integrating’ with British society, and I do realise that like minded people tend to live in neighbourhoods, as British citizens do in Spain for instance, but not to the extent that they establish ghettos....and, and live in accordance With British law only.

    I really do think that the UK needs a policy now which will only allow immigration under exception circumstances and for crucial skills like doctors.


    There should be no reason for this country to import foreign labourers or farm workers when there are Britons who could do those jobs.


    On the issue of integration, I have no sympathy for Britons in Spain or anyone else, especially in a post Brexit world, who do not integrate into those cultures. If you want to be British, stay in Britain.


    As for this country, the reason the ghettos were created is because the British people did not want huge numbers of foreign people in their midst, so the foreign groups rallied together. I can't blame the foreigners for seeking safety in numbers, but I do blame the politicians in a post war world for their extreme liberal policy on multiculturalism and immigration.

    We have an obligation to provide shelter to genuine refugees - but migrants travelling through safe countries to get to the UK are clearly not genuine.

    As the UK is a collection of Islands most refugee claims will naturally arrive after passing through safe countries, and to my mind, should be sent back.....but because of this, as Cameron actually did, to ensure that the UK played it’s part in providing safe homes to genuine refugees we should take ‘our share’ direct from the refugee camps .

    I fear however that we have already made a rod for our own back as they say.......just like France.

    It's exactly the fact we are a island, that there are other safe countries for refugees to seek sanctuary in. Which is why many of these so called refugees who come here are not refugees at all, but illegal migrants.

  • Such a rigid immigration policy would destroy the country. There are a shortage of engineers in a variety of fields right now. Due to EU open borders selective immigration is not possible. With border control we can attract quality engineers from around the world. If we don't do that and sit twiddling our thumbs waiting for enough British engineers to get trained all the firms, including the myriad of smaller ones that no one seems to realise exist, will go overseas.


    Obviously we should be giving special treatment to students doing science and technology degrees e.g. reduced fees/maintenance grants but British people are increasingly anti-science these days, and of course they think the arts are far cooler, so that is never going to happen.

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    I wish we supported those smaller companies of engineers or groups of scientists like they do in places like Germany and America. We have a site of world excellence in Manchester due to the scientists discovery there of graphene. Do we support these centres? Of course not, most people don't even know about them. Ridiculous.

  • Such a rigid immigration policy would destroy the country. There are a shortage of engineers in a variety of fields right now. Due to EU open borders selective immigration is not possible. With border control we can attract quality engineers from around the world. If we don't do that and sit twiddling our thumbs waiting for enough British engineers to get trained all the firms, including the myriad of smaller ones that no one seems to realise exist, will go overseas.


    Obviously we should be giving special treatment to students doing science and technology degrees e.g. reduced fees/maintenance grants but British people are increasingly anti-science these days, and of course they think the arts are far cooler, so that is never going to happen.

    Rubbish! What is rigid about ensuring that immigrants allowed into the country are fulfilling 'shortages' cited on the country's list of needs, For instance, what is the point of allowing non-skilled migrants into a country that has over a million non-skilled unemployed??

    Educating students, whilst good for the college/university is fine - but that doesn't necessarily equate with qualified students seeking employment in the UK, even though many do.

    Incidentally, in case you hadn't noticed, the UK already attracts a significant number of non-EU migrants.....but do you really believe that immigration to the UK can be, or has to be limitless??? At least out of the EU, in theory at least, immigration can be controlled, by restricting migration applicants to the fulfilment of 'needs'......albeit, despite that being the 'theory', it most certainly will not be the practice.

  • You seem to be arguing against open borders but have perhaps inadvertently quoted my post which, if read properly, is promoting border controls...

  • You seem to be arguing against open borders but have perhaps inadvertently quoted my post which, if read properly, is promoting border controls...

    Really? Your post fatuously referred to 'rigid' immigration controls 'ruining' the country! Controlling immigration is both sensible, and responsible - unlike the open door policy practised by the EU federalists. We should indeed be training our own future engineers etc, but we also have a significant input of non-EU migrants from which we can supplement our skilled force......but that area also doesn't appear to be well controlled.

  • Really? Your post fatuously referred to 'rigid' immigration controls 'ruining' the country! Controlling immigration is both sensible, and responsible - unlike the open door policy practised by the EU federalists. We should indeed be training our own future engineers etc, but we also have a significant input of non-EU migrants from which we can supplement our skilled force......but that area also doesn't appear to be well controlled.

    Rigid immigration controls as described by Horizon in the previous post...

    • Staff Notice

    Hoxton, when you say that we should be opening the doors to get new engineers etc from around the world, do you mean they would be able to migrate here and become citizens or are you talking about having them on a work permit scheme?


    When I talk about immigration, I mean people who are coming to love in this country permanently.

    • Staff Notice

    Ahh... this is the problem about the debate about immigration that two different things get intermingled and messed up with each other.


    I have no problem with issuing temporary work permits for skills we need. So, if the government believes it will take 5-10 years to train up a generation of engineers, I don't have a problem with work permits being issued that allows foreigners to come to this country for a limited time to cover the skills we are short in.


    The problem is, at the moment, they all stay. Some become citizens, many don't. It's a total mess.

  • You seem to be arguing against open borders but have perhaps inadvertently quoted my post which, if read properly, is promoting border controls...

    But Horizon didn't reference a 'rigid' immigration system - he wrote about applying controls, to make it a sensible immigration policy - as practised by the majority of countries. Your fatuous comment of ruining the country, apart from not even being supported by a half-baked item of 'evidence', is certainly not illustrated by the countries which operate sensible controls.....but maybe you are happy that unskilled immigrants find residence in a country which has over 1 million unemployed, with the vast majority being low or unskilled .

  • Ahh... this is the problem about the debate about immigration that two different things get intermingled and messed up with each other.


    I have no problem with issuing temporary work permits for skills we need. So, if the government believes it will take 5-10 years to train up a generation of engineers, I don't have a problem with work permits being issued that allows foreigners to come to this country for a limited time to cover the skills we are short in.


    The problem is, at the moment, they all stay. Some become citizens, many don't. It's a total mess.

    I agree - but we currently don't have a problem with allowing skilled people into the country.......our problem is with those unskilled immigrants. We certainly have enough unskilled residents in the UK.....the problem with some, is getting them willing to work.....

    • Staff Notice

    .... simple, send them back to their own countries.


    Just so that I am clear, because someone might be deemed to be "skilled" does not mean they should get automatic rights to come and work here. It should be on a case-by-case basis and then and only then, should temporary work permits be issued.


    As for unskilled labour, I've made my views perfectly clear on this. There should be zero unskilled labour here.

  • .... simple, send them back to their own countries.


    Just so that I am clear, because someone might be deemed to be "skilled" does not mean they should get automatic rights to come and work here. It should be on a case-by-case basis and then and only then, should temporary work permits be issued.


    As for unskilled labour, I've made my views perfectly clear on this. There should be zero unskilled labour here.

    That however, is one of the reasons for responsibly controlling immigration....as well as having the required skills to assist in skilled shortages, they should also be of good character.

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