The Great Debate on Immigration

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  • Wasted on paying rich mates and their businesses in return for party donations. It's basically money laundering tax from the people then laundered into donations and into their pockets. If the whole country refused to pay any tax I wonder what would happen. But it would take mass numbers with many businesses included and refusing to pay folks tax on wages and shops to refuse charging VAT etc.

    That's one way to bring total chaos , slower but easier way is to vote Labour everyone will be taxed to death again

  • The problem as I see it is people have perfectly legitimate concerns about the impact of immigration and they’re dismissed as racist.


    I was speaking to someone who said they had voted Labour in the local elections and we were talking about towns in the North and we got to Burnley and the person replied - aren’t they racist there?


    It’s no surprise that Labour have lost the support they have in the North and Midlands if these are the attitudes that prevail in the party. Middle-class, professional, educated, urban liberal-minded Labour voters sneering at the working class in small ‘left behind’ Brexit voting towns who traditionally have voted for the same party as them. It’s a disconnect with those who would have identified as fellow Labour voters not that long ago. Labour won’t win a majority without these voters and until it starts speaking to them.

    I was born near Burnley when I was younger I went to Burnley College and when I did follow football I used to watch Burnley play occasionally.


    Wife and I will be in Burnley for a couple of days beginning of June to visit my Mum who is in a nursing home nearby booked in to a Hotel in Burnley , there is no way we will go for a walk or shop in Burnley , or my home town at night gangs of Asian youths all over the place fighting over drugs and girls.


    We were going to retire back in the North , not ruled it out yet but if we do it will probably be in the Skipton area major problem if we do go back up its a 5 hour drive for our kids and grandkids to come and see us and visa-versa

  • It's a sad fact today that you can never go back where you came from. They bugger things down the years until all the old places have had the soul ripped out of them. :cursing:

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • The problem as I see it is people have perfectly legitimate concerns about the impact of immigration and they’re dismissed as racist.


    I was speaking to someone who said they had voted Labour in the local elections and we were talking about towns in the North and we got to Burnley and the person replied - aren’t they racist there?


    It’s no surprise that Labour have lost the support they have in the North and Midlands if these are the attitudes that prevail in the party. Middle-class, professional, educated, urban liberal-minded Labour voters sneering at the working class in small ‘left behind’ Brexit voting towns who traditionally have voted for the same party as them. It’s a disconnect with those who would have identified as fellow Labour voters not that long ago. Labour won’t win a majority without these voters and until it starts speaking to them.

    My experience of most Labour voters are they are more right wing than Conservative voters. I play golf with a bloke who absolutely hates the Tory party and votes Labour. He does this because of where he comes from (mining country) yet he is opposed to just about everything the Labour party stand for. I am convinced there is space for a "common sense" party, a party that represents the beliefs of the masses, and are in touch with the man in the street. All our existing parties spend their time trying appease minority groups and minority views.

  • Yes, I think there is something in that - I thought that the Liberal Democrats might become that ‘common sense middle ground party’ but they’ve turned out to be a major disappointment. Their woke credentials put most sensible people off.

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  • It's a sad fact today that you can never go back where you came from. They bugger things down the years until all the old places have had the soul ripped out of them. :cursing:

    As I've said before, my area is rapidly going that way too.


    Getting too overdeveloped now and too many people. Used to be a quiet little suburb, but is now looking more and more like the rest of London with each and every day.


    Bring back the Essex town of old, please!

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  • My experience of most Labour voters are they are more right wing than Conservative voters. I play golf with a bloke who absolutely hates the Tory party and votes Labour. He does this because of where he comes from (mining country) yet he is opposed to just about everything the Labour party stand for. I am convinced there is space for a "common sense" party, a party that represents the beliefs of the masses, and are in touch with the man in the street. All our existing parties spend their time trying appease minority groups and minority views.

    Problem with places like your friend, is Thatcher.


    Not that Scargill was ever for the miners either, but she was too harsh. If things had been done diffrently, all those areas would be conservative.

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  • Yes, I think there is something in that - I thought that the Liberal Democrats might become that ‘common sense middle ground party’ but they’ve turned out to be a major disappointment. Their woke credentials put most sensible people off.

    I quite like Ed Davey, but not sure about the rest of them.


    On the subject, what do you think of Farage, OB?

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  • I was born near Burnley when I was younger I went to Burnley College and when I did follow football I used to watch Burnley play occasionally.


    Wife and I will be in Burnley for a couple of days beginning of June to visit my Mum who is in a nursing home nearby booked in to a Hotel in Burnley , there is no way we will go for a walk or shop in Burnley , or my home town at night gangs of Asian youths all over the place fighting over drugs and girls.

    My mum and her family came from Uttoxeter, so not as northern as you, but not southern either.

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  • I've never been either. My mum was going to take me after my dad died, then things went wrong with her...

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  • Good idea! :)


    I don't drive, but I should learn.


    I've got as far as the lake district, but never really seen out nortern cities or towns, apart from a brief visit to Manchster once.

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  • Why not give it a go, I was born in the shadow of Pendle Hill where the Witches lived last Witch trial in England fascinating bit of local history, when you visit the area at night I still think the buggers are still about =O

  • I quite like Ed Davey, but not sure about the rest of them.


    On the subject, what do you think of Farage, OB?

    He’s a bit of a loudmouth and a stirrer, but I can’t help agreeing with many of things he says. He certainly makes you think!

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  • My experience of most Labour voters are they are more right wing than Conservative voters. I play golf with a bloke who absolutely hates the Tory party and votes Labour. He does this because of where he comes from (mining country) yet he is opposed to just about everything the Labour party stand for. I am convinced there is space for a "common sense" party, a party that represents the beliefs of the masses, and are in touch with the man in the street. All our existing parties spend their time trying appease minority groups and minority views.

    I think Horizon hits the nail on the head. A lot of Labour voters have a deep-seated hatred towards Thatcher and the way she dealt with the mines. Voting Labour is in their blood and they’ll do so regardless. However clearly many have had enough of Labour as we saw with the last election and they weren’t exactly flooding back in the local elections.


    I think many of these traditional Labour voters are socially conservative in their views, so although they may be all for unions and workers rights and things like that, their views towards immigration will be different to others in Labour who welcome it. I think that’s the divide within the Labour vote and until the party works out how to bridge it, I think it will struggle to win back these voters and get a majority in the next election and future ones.

  • My experience of most Labour voters are they are more right wing than Conservative voters. I play golf with a bloke who absolutely hates the Tory party and votes Labour. He does this because of where he comes from (mining country) yet he is opposed to just about everything the Labour party stand for. I am convinced there is space for a "common sense" party, a party that represents the beliefs of the masses, and are in touch with the man in the street. All our existing parties spend their time trying appease minority groups and minority views.

    I think you would be talking about the Farage led UKIP or Brexit Parties. Obviously after Farage stood down the wheels came off and they became a bit nutty.


    Farage seems to have a reasonable view on most key issues.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Problem with places like your friend, is Thatcher.


    Not that Scargill was ever for the miners either, but she was too harsh. If things had been done diffrently, all those areas would be conservative.

    The Union’s had to be crushed after they were given too much influence under Socialist Labour in the 70s.


    I think that the dismantling and destruction of the mining industry was wrong though.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • The person to blame for the miner's crisis was Scargill. He used the miners as political pawns to try and overthrow the elected government and install a communist one. I lived in a mining community during this period and never ever heard a good word said about Scargill. The miners were betrayed by their union.

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