The Great Debate on Immigration

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  • And there lies the problem. Until someone can come up with something better, we should not tamper with it.

    I believe the problem lies as much with the voters as it does the system. In my experience more people I know agree with the policies of the reform party than any other party, but wouldn't vote for them because they believe it is a wasted vote. I believe very few people hold a high regard for either the Labour party or the Conservatives, but will probably vote for one of them at the next election just to keep the other one out of power. Of course there is proportional representation, but this comes in several forms and generally means we would end up with a hung parliament.

    Unfortunately politicians are out of touch with the general public, and listen to those who shout the loudest. This is why people with minority opinions tend to get their own way. If the silent majority wasn't so bloody silent then perhaps political decisions would make more sense to us.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • Perhaps Voting should be made compulsory that way all the Party's would know without any shadow of a doubt what the voters think, I would also included another box that stated " None of the Above Party's or Candidates "

    Trouble is IMO that many people no longer take any interest in Politics and don't even vote , which to me makes no sense it took years to have the right to vote, and even longer for women

  • I would get rid of parliament and all the MPs and give the Royals another go especially as William rises to the throne so it like before Cromwell days. It's not like the Royals will behead people and stuff like back in them days.

  • I would get rid of parliament and all the MPs and give the Royals another go especially as William rises to the throne so it like before Cromwell days. It's not like the Royals will behead people and stuff like back in them days.

    I think where we go wrong is letting civil servants run the country. I believe minister in charge of any department should an expert in the field. Governments are always have re-shuffles, which involves putting someone in charge of a department they know nothing about, and in turn allowing civil servants to run the country. It doesn't make sense to me

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • No, it’s important that we don’t have professionals making policy when it comes to making the best decisions for the country. The beauty of the present system is that professionals recommend and politicians implement.

    Professionals tend to be a bit obsessive in their respective fields. Politicians are there to apply the public perception.

  • No, it’s important that we don’t have professionals making policy when it comes to making the best decisions for the country. The beauty of the present system is that professionals recommend and politicians implement.

    Professionals tend to be a bit obsessive in their respective fields. Politicians are there to apply the public perception.

    Yes Civil Servants do not run the country , it matters not which Government we have in place the Politicians run the country , they decide what is to happen and the Civil Service is supposed to implement their instructions , those that don't carry out those instructions should be sacked IMO

  • Yes Civil Servants do not run the country , it matters not which Government we have in place the Politicians run the country , they decide what is to happen and the Civil Service is supposed to implement their instructions , those that don't carry out those instructions should be sacked IMO

    That’s all very well but politicians but those instructions have to be legal & comprehensive.

    It’s very easy for politicians to blame civil servants.

  • That’s all very well but politicians but those instructions have to be legal & comprehensive.

    It’s very easy for politicians to blame civil servants.

    If you don't want to do something, you can always find a way to be awkward. What is needed is managers to relentlessly push the initiative through and get in the faces of those who stand in the way, demand regular updates and set challenging targets to get things done. I believe these are all known as bullying in this day and age but things did get done back then. Labour had Alistair Campbell and the Tories had Dominic Cummings. The comedy show "The Thick of It" gave a humorous insight into how these things worked - brilliant series.

    Here is 45 minutes of absolutely superb highlights of The Thick of IT

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    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Having worked in the Civil Service I know for a fact that many Senior Heads of Departments can and are awkward they don't like change and run their Departments like their own personal empire

  • Having worked in the Civil Service I know for a fact that many Senior Heads of Departments can and are awkward they don't like change and run their Departments like their own personal empire.

    Absolutely spot on Fred.

    The Voice of Reason

  • Lots of stories related to immigration, including the fact that those coming across the Channel is at a all time high:

    Priti Patel to step down as home secretary, ahead of new PM
    Priti Patel says the incoming prime minister Liz Truss will get her support from the backbenches.
    www.bbc.co.uk

    Good riddance. She was useless. Crime is at a all time high and immigration out of control, but will her replacement fare any better? Having a proper conservative home secretary would be a good start.

    Ministers warned about Rwanda's human rights, court told
    Campaigners are challenging the Home Office's plan for some cross-Channel migrants.
    www.bbc.co.uk

    I've no idea what the court is going to rule, but the Rwanda idea is dead in the water anyway, in my view. It was never implemented and never will be.

    English Channel small boat crossings pass 27,000 this year after around 1,000 arrive on Sunday
    Border Force vessels and RNLI lifeboats have been responding to continuous sightings of small boats since early on Sunday morning
    www.gbnews.uk

    These are just the official numbers, let alone the many more who get through undetected. But of course the real scandal here is how many are sent back and as we know, the number is ZERO.

  • Some do get get deported but the numbers are small , some of the Albanians have been sent packing within a few days but again not enough , I don't have too much of a problem with genuine asylum seekers as such but trying to sort the wheat from the chafe is very difficult.

    Bottom line is our overburdened unfractured cannot absorb so many people house them and provide for them

  • What is disturbing is that those illegals have at first travelled through so many safe countries before arriving in the UK........................... It's because the UK is operating a soft and tolerant approach to those committing the crime of illegal entry, providing them with money, giving them accommodation and allowing them into our welfare system. ................... Other countries take a much tougher stance on illegal entry and send illegals back to the country from where they crossed the border. ........... In the case of the channel illegals they should be returned to France, as it is France who are permitting and encouraging those dangerous crossings. ........ The UK is being taken for mugs and the practice will continue until we stamp it out once and for all . Even if it means treating France as a hostile country. ... The UK is a relative small island and cannot possibly absorb all the illegals flooding our country. ........ ACT NOW..

    The Voice of Reason

  • Yes we are too soft and often it is our Courts and Human Rights Lawyers that hamper our attempts to deport those who have no genuine right to stay here , we even struggle to deport violent Criminals when they have served their sentences

  • Some do get get deported but the numbers are small , some of the Albanians have been sent packing within a few days but again not enough , I don't have too much of a problem with genuine asylum seekers as such but trying to sort the wheat from the chafe is very difficult.

    Bottom line is our overburdened unfractured cannot absorb so many people house them and provide for them

    You can only be a genuine asylum seeker if you are arriving at the nearest friendly country from where you were being persecuted. So France and Ireland. Neither known for their poor human rights so it is unlikely that anyone arriving in the UK claiming asylum is genuine. However, if we pick you up and bring you here all that falls away...

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • I would like Truss to turn what is France's immigration problem back onto them.

    We don't have a border with the continent and are surrounded by sea and if other countries have open borders and allow everyone in, that's there's business. We chose Brexit, closed borders and it's about time our borders were enforced.

  • We have the problem of physically rounding them up and putting them on transport out of the country. We are not in the business of acting illegally so we cannot just send large ships to dock in Calais the French won't let them in. We have been stuffed because all the boat people who were in France wanted to come to the UK. They would rather take their chances in a small boat in the worlds busiest shipping lane that stay in France. They do not want to leave the UK, it will be another big human rights battle and we will lose it once again.

    We need to stop letting them in as a starting position, don't pick them up in open sea and never let them set foot on British soil. The much harder problem is getting them out once they are here.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • If they are on boats in the Channel and they are in difficulty or in danger which these dingy are as they overloaded especially if the weather turn bad we and other nations have to comply with International Maritime Law and assist them and convey them to the nearest safe port

    The EU is awash with alleged Asylum Seekers and Economic Migrants

    Up to now there is no agreement in place between London, Paris or other key European countries to return migrants to these nations and there is little our Government can do to safely return migrants.

    Agreements have been sought with France, Belgium and Germany, under which migrants who come to the UK illegally would be returned to the country from which they had come.

    Even if we decide to return some alleged Asylum Seekers to their own country some countries will not accept them, we will not deport them back to their own country if they may face persecution torture or even death.

    Its Hobsons Choice at the moment , we may see things change if the UK Bill of Rights is put in place as it will be our Courts that decide the outcome if a person is deported or not , not Court or legal body in the EU

  • At the moment the French authorities escort them to the edge of French water in the channel and often as not we have a craft waiting there to taxi them to the UK. There are boats that make it all the way but we also do the taxi service. We need to be more robust with keeping the boats in French water so that they do not transfer liability. The current situation of escort and handover is making a mockery of asylum laws and the rules of entry to the country. They still ditch their passports so they cannot be easily identified which only goes to make it even harder to remove them.

    I think we need a large old cruise liner that picks them up but never lands at a port in the UK, it keeps on sailing up and down the channel until its full and then sets off for somewhere far far away. As the ship could be registered to Panama and is fuelled and supplied from outside the UK we could avoid all the human rights issues.

    Where to take them, that is the question. Once the word gets around that you will be put on the cruise liner and sent to the equator it would make a suitable deterrent.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • They either have their Documents taken off them by the Smugglers , or destroy them if they have any which means it could take a long time to establish if at all possible exactly who they are and from where, which means we have to look after them when they arrive here, some will have forged papers

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