The Great NHS debate

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    • Staff Notice

    Should the NHS be privatised?


    How would the NHS be funded in the future?


    What should the NHS do?


    Do we even need a NHS?


    Can the NHS afford to continue in its current form for much longer, surely the breaking point is soon?

    • Staff Notice

    Not if it keeps doing this sort of loonatic waste:



    Jane Moore's column


    I'm sure that this nonsense goes on all over the NHS and the civil service. I've heard of £20 bills to change a light bulb.

  • Not so much waste by the NHS, as the effects of being tied up in so many PPP/PFI deals, under both Tory and Blairite governments in the 90s.

    • Staff Notice

    There is enormous waste Plastic, but you raise another very good issue in regards to the PPP/PFI deals.


    My local hospital was newly built about 10 years ago under a PFI deal. The hospital is "administered" by the private company on behalf of my local NHS trust. It will take the NHS about 30 years to pay back the costs of the hospital, which are about about ten times the real cost of construction and equipping it. A total mess.


    Surely, there must be a better way to do things?

    • Staff Notice

    Should the NHS be about preventing disease, rather than treating it?

    People in England are being told to cut back on alcohol, sugar, salt and fat in a bid to boost the nation's life expectancy by five years.

    Health Secretary Matt Hancock will set out his long-term vision for the NHS on Monday - and it will focus on preventing illness.

    He will say that 10 times more money is spent on treating disease than prevention - which "doesn't stack up".

    Should the NHS concentrate more on preventing disease, rather than treating it? What about schools here? Shouldn't they be the primary method to educate the young uns about health? What about the policy of allowing unlimited takeaways etc etc?


    If the NHS becomes about givng vouchers for gyms, where do we go to if we fall ill?

    • Staff Notice

    Something has to be done to try and stop the meteoric rise in demand. Too many people are literally killing themselves with drink, drugs, food etc.


    This graphic shows the depth of the potential chrisis:



    It is a fact that the NHS could swallow the entire public service budget and still have unsatisfied demands.

    • Staff Notice

    Something has to be done to try and stop the meteoric rise in demand. Too many people are literally killing themselves with drink, drugs, food etc.

    Could one solution be to tax those that do these things?


    I'm thinking that the State should assist people to stop drinking, smoking etc and get them on courses to help them, but if that doesn't work or they refuse to go to them, should they then should they be taxed extra for the inevitable extra money they will cost everyone else?


    The NHS has always been universal, but how sustainable is this?. If mountain climbers go up Ben Nevis in the middle of winter and have a accident, there is no cost on them for their stupidity. We all have to pay for it.


    At what point do we say no? This is what the State pays for and this is what the individual pays for? Or should it just continue as it is now and that graph shows what will happen if it does.

    • Staff Notice

    Could one solution be to tax those that do these things?

    Many of those things are already taxed and quite heavily in the case of tobacco and alcohol. I think limits as to what the NHS is there for will have to be applied. That can start with elective surgery: Unless there is a sound medical reason this should all be done privately at the patient's own expense.


    Although with the rise in anti-biotic resistance much surgery may become simply too risky to carry out.


    Those who engage in dangerous sports should have compulsary accident insurance.


    Schools have their place in this too educating the young that you can't abuse your body and expect the state to somehow pick up the pieces. If someone is obese then they must be told that. Not pussyfooting about in case it hurts their feelings.

    • Staff Notice

    I meant tax the person directly,

    I think that would be unenforcible because of the matter of degree whereas taxing the product automatically punishes those who consume the greater amount.


    How about obesity? Do we routinely put people on the scales and then tax the amount of excess blubber? I can immediatly hear shouts of stigmatising the fat.


    I've said jokingly in the past that fast food establishments should only have a 12" wide doorway and food cannot be passed out. Maybe we need that.:/

  • I think that would be unenforcible because of the matter of degree whereas taxing the product automatically punishes those who consume the greater amount.


    How about obesity? Do we routinely put people on the scales and then tax the amount of excess blubber? I can immediatly hear shouts of stigmatising the fat.


    I've said jokingly in the past that fast food establishments should only have a 12" wide doorway and food cannot be passed out. Maybe we need that.:/

    :D:D:D what if someone squeezed in but ate and was traped inside ^^

  • What do you expect

    As Thatcher used to say "They are not one of us". She could well have said that about people who depend on the NHS
    I still wonder why Johnson used the NHS, folk like him usually go private

  • It's not a dispute over conservative or labour as they are all the same selfish c***s. This is how all politicians work. Professional bullshitters and blatant liars.

    But it is

    The politicians rarely use the NHS unless for some publicity gimmick, they all go private

    The service is for us plebs so the more money that goes in the better the service

    Ok, it needs the top heavy management, inefficiency sorting out and more spending on the front line but that is another issue

  • Sorry if this upsets anyone, but I'm going to say it anyone. Every Thursday night we have millions of people stood on their doorsteps like idiots applauding people who can't hear them. I am sick of being told how wonderful our NHS is, especially as we have the highest death toll in Europe as a result of COVID, and second worst in the world. You lefties out there are no doubt going to blame the government for lack of funding, mainly because you have no concept of finance. However, that is neither here nor there, the NHS is the NHS, and goes further than the doctors or nurses. I heard on television this morning the reason so many people are dying in care homes is because they have been sent home early. There hasn't been a shortage of beds, especially with the Nightingale hospitals, so sending them home early can only be contributed to the incompetence of NHS staff. From a personal point of view, my own experiences with the NHS have been terrible, almost to the point of third world treatment. They aren't bad at sorting you out if you have a life threatening disease, but anything else is a hit and miss situation. If your unlucky enough to require a knee or hip operation, good luck. If you are unlucky enough to have a mental health problem, it's possible you may go completely nus before you get to see anyone. Even getting a doctors appointment is a task in it's self, and it just shouldn't be.


    Again, don't politicise this, the subject is about the quality of our NHS, NOT the political party in charge at any one time. I am now in my sixties and can't remember it ever being any good, and I have lived through many governments, both red and blue. Most people understand that the growth in population has been far quicker than any health service could keep up with, although perhaps they don't. So how do you rate our NHS ?????

    • Staff Notice

    The NHS is not fit for purpose. It is inefficient and often ineffective. You can't get appointments at doctor's surgeries for love or money, which leads to people to go to A&E for their non-life threatening illnesses (and waiting about 4+ hours for the privilege). Medical records are contained in huge paper files instead of on computers. The information that does find its way onto computers is not shared between hospitals or with GPs. Letters from consultants to GPs and patients are delayed because all letters go to a typing pool instead of being typed up by the consultant and sent by email. Appointments with consultants in hospitals are often changed for no apparent reason and when they are eventually honoured, you can be waiting one or two hours for your consultation.


    The list goes on and on. Porters swanning around pushing empty trollies back and forth, staff talking in huddles in hospital corridors. Patients not being properly attended to. Meals being brought to patients who cannot feed themselves, but with no-one to feed them. Patients being discharged far too early, before they have recovered sufficiently. Mental health services virtually non existent.


    It is not a happy story at all. We do need a Royal Commission set up to report urgently to consider how we can reform the NHS and merge it with our care services, and if this is best achieved by increasing the use of the private sector, so be it.


    What we all deserve is an efficient health care and dental service which is free at the point of delivery for all British nationals. All foreigners should be required to have health insurance before being admitted to the country to pay for any treatment they need on the NHS. Cosmetic treatments should not be permitted unless it is for the purpose of rectifying a deformity or for reconstruction surgery. People failing to attend their appointments without good reason should be fined and refused any further appointments until paid.


    If it is not possible to fund such a service despite these efficiences, then it may be necessary to set an excess charge for each hospital procedure carried out. If that was not acceptable, then the kind of treatments available on the NHS should be limited. Compensation payments should always be related to the costs of looking after an individual damaged by medical negligence and for nothing else.


    Whatever happens, we have to get to a situation whereby we can get the care we need in a more timely manner and with courtesy. I can't see it happening in my lifetime, unfortunately - I dread getting ill.

  • The NHS is a lumbering most inefficient organisation yet it is the best we have got, and admired worldwide. Treatment is available that does not depend on the ability to pay

    Critics forget what it was like before it was created

    Under the Tories for the past ten years it has been badly underfunded which has led to the present difficulties, a situation Johnson has recognised and promised massive investment to rectify

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