The Great NHS debate

  • Should the NHS be privatised?


    How would the NHS be funded in the future?


    What should the NHS do?


    Do we even need a NHS?


    Can the NHS afford to continue in its current form for much longer, surely the breaking point is soon?

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  • Not if it keeps doing this sort of loonatic waste:



    Jane Moore's column


    I'm sure that this nonsense goes on all over the NHS and the civil service. I've heard of £20 bills to change a light bulb.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • There is enormous waste Plastic, but you raise another very good issue in regards to the PPP/PFI deals.


    My local hospital was newly built about 10 years ago under a PFI deal. The hospital is "administered" by the private company on behalf of my local NHS trust. It will take the NHS about 30 years to pay back the costs of the hospital, which are about about ten times the real cost of construction and equipping it. A total mess.


    Surely, there must be a better way to do things?

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  • .....just to add to that comment from last year, in this year's Budget, the chancellor said that he will not and never has, signed any PFI deals.


    So, we're stuck with the ones we've got, but that's it. No more of them.


    Ok, onto today's news.

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  • Should the NHS be about preventing disease, rather than treating it?

    People in England are being told to cut back on alcohol, sugar, salt and fat in a bid to boost the nation's life expectancy by five years.

    Health Secretary Matt Hancock will set out his long-term vision for the NHS on Monday - and it will focus on preventing illness.

    He will say that 10 times more money is spent on treating disease than prevention - which "doesn't stack up".

    Should the NHS concentrate more on preventing disease, rather than treating it? What about schools here? Shouldn't they be the primary method to educate the young uns about health? What about the policy of allowing unlimited takeaways etc etc?


    If the NHS becomes about givng vouchers for gyms, where do we go to if we fall ill?

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  • Something has to be done to try and stop the meteoric rise in demand. Too many people are literally killing themselves with drink, drugs, food etc.


    This graphic shows the depth of the potential chrisis:



    It is a fact that the NHS could swallow the entire public service budget and still have unsatisfied demands.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • Something has to be done to try and stop the meteoric rise in demand. Too many people are literally killing themselves with drink, drugs, food etc.

    Could one solution be to tax those that do these things?


    I'm thinking that the State should assist people to stop drinking, smoking etc and get them on courses to help them, but if that doesn't work or they refuse to go to them, should they then should they be taxed extra for the inevitable extra money they will cost everyone else?


    The NHS has always been universal, but how sustainable is this?. If mountain climbers go up Ben Nevis in the middle of winter and have a accident, there is no cost on them for their stupidity. We all have to pay for it.


    At what point do we say no? This is what the State pays for and this is what the individual pays for? Or should it just continue as it is now and that graph shows what will happen if it does.

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  • Could one solution be to tax those that do these things?

    Many of those things are already taxed and quite heavily in the case of tobacco and alcohol. I think limits as to what the NHS is there for will have to be applied. That can start with elective surgery: Unless there is a sound medical reason this should all be done privately at the patient's own expense.


    Although with the rise in anti-biotic resistance much surgery may become simply too risky to carry out.


    Those who engage in dangerous sports should have compulsary accident insurance.


    Schools have their place in this too educating the young that you can't abuse your body and expect the state to somehow pick up the pieces. If someone is obese then they must be told that. Not pussyfooting about in case it hurts their feelings.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • Many of those things are already taxed and quite heavily in the case of tobacco and alcohol.

    I should've been clearer there. I meant tax the person directly, rather than indirect taxes on products.

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  • I meant tax the person directly,

    I think that would be unenforcible because of the matter of degree whereas taxing the product automatically punishes those who consume the greater amount.


    How about obesity? Do we routinely put people on the scales and then tax the amount of excess blubber? I can immediatly hear shouts of stigmatising the fat.


    I've said jokingly in the past that fast food establishments should only have a 12" wide doorway and food cannot be passed out. Maybe we need that.:/

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

    If my post is in this colour  it is moderation. Take note.

  • I think that would be unenforcible because of the matter of degree whereas taxing the product automatically punishes those who consume the greater amount.


    How about obesity? Do we routinely put people on the scales and then tax the amount of excess blubber? I can immediatly hear shouts of stigmatising the fat.


    I've said jokingly in the past that fast food establishments should only have a 12" wide doorway and food cannot be passed out. Maybe we need that.:/

    :D:D:D what if someone squeezed in but ate and was traped inside ^^

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