The Great NHS debate

When making a post, please ensure it complies with this site's Main Rules at all times.
  • NHS trust: why Whitehall’s increasingly divided view on health and care matters
    With Whitehall paymasters showing less faith in the organisations that hold the budgets for health and social care in England, Mark Dayan describes five ways…
    www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk

    This is an interesting, but ultimately depressing read. However, it does not change my view that a shedload of money is being wasted in the NHS, and that a big review - maybe a Royal Commission - is required to sort it out.

    Otherwise, we are just throwing good money after bad.

  • Throwing more and more money at the NHS year in year out, is akin to respraying an old car without treating the rust first all that does is hide the problems for short time until the rust come through again.

  • I am very late to this discussion and things have changed since the topic started in some ways ... from what I see the NHS which is supposed to be a National organisation is going more and more the way of other 'National' services/provisions like Education and Housing by persistently trying to be run as 'privatised' segmented services.


    So rather that there being ONE department for the upkeep of buildings and grounds every hospital now has a dedicated manager/supervisor/workers for example for upkeep needs.


    Schools are the same ... instead of one national department to employ cleaners, caretakers etc there are contracted out services which require multiple layers of duplicated 'managers' across the country instead of a central department.


    What an utter waste of time and money that could be better spent on upkeep and even staff.


    The NHS is being deliberatley dismantled by stealth ... it's getting closer to a point of no return ... I do not understand why the nation is not up in arms about this much treasured and former flagship of national health and care being run down.


    Look at dentistry ... eye care ... ear care ... all were regulated and uniformly treated across the Nation to the same standard ... now it's a postcode lottery.


    IMO the ruining of the NHS is a matter of national shame.

    There's a crack, a crack in everything

    That's how the light gets in.

    Leonard Cohen.

  • Hello Sofea, public welcome from me. I've sent you a private hello message too.

    Yes, I agree about the segmented services bit.

    I think the fact of the matter is that the NHS is now totally unaffordable, hence why there are such waiting lists for GPs etc. But it will be a brave politician who goes the whole hog and does away with it entirely, so it will limp on until it does completely collapse.

    Either way, it will cost us a lot more money to have health services in the future, regardless of how they are delivered and I don't think the majority of the Great British Public has cottoned on to that fact, yet.

  • Yes GP surgeries are a particular worry ... my local surgery suddenly became a privatised one in terms of leaving centralised management and recieving funding via a contract to continue to provide services.

    A huge influx of numbers in the county had to be served by the same contract and other surgeries were 'bought up' to become a group of practices belonging to a small group of 'owner' GP's


    Getting through to the surgeries became very difficult - one phone number for 5 surgeries - and appointments were like the proverbial gold dust.


    The whole practice is now boasting - in it's lengthy telephone answering service message - 'on the day appointments' like it's some new and shiny creation that's never been offered before where actually once it was the norm.


    Sometimes progress is just counterproductive and the only people really benefiting are the 'shareholders' which totally trashes the original ethos of the NHS.


    It IS unsustainable as things stand because that's all part of the dismantling so that we have no choice but to 'go private' and then we are no longer part of a nation which takes care of it's members for the good of the whole but rather we become health consumers ... in just another for profit service for the good of the stakeholders.


    It's quite obscene really.

    There's a crack, a crack in everything

    That's how the light gets in.

    Leonard Cohen.

  • Yes GP surgeries are a particular worry ... my local surgery suddenly became a privatised one in terms of leaving centralised management and recieving funding via a contract to continue to provide services.

    A huge influx of numbers in the county had to be served by the same contract and other surgeries were 'bought up' to become a group of practices belonging to a small group of 'owner' GP's

    This "buying up" is the prelude to GP charges, I assume, but no politician wants to be the one to bring that in.

    My local GP surgery handed back their NHS contract last year and a bit like schools, I live right next to a merged PE (whatever that is) primary school, everything is getting bigger. American sized. Which is great for those that can drive...

  • It IS unsustainable as things stand because that's all part of the dismantling so that we have no choice but to 'go private' and then we are no longer part of a nation which takes care of it's members for the good of the whole but rather we become health consumers ... in just another for profit service for the good of the stakeholders.


    It's quite obscene really.

    I am probably of a different political persuasion than you, so I have no dogmatic view against health being run privately, but at the moment we're in no-man's land between the two.

    And yes, people could regularly get same day appointments, so they did that, again and again and again. Even for colds... It's what happens when things are "free" and it led to the situation that we are now in.

    The NHS has been systematically abused both from within (waste, poorly run and ineptitude) and from without, by the public unnecessarily using precious resources.

  • If I were PM I’d set up a Royal Commission to look at the NHS, the problems with how it is currently managed, how it could be managed more efficiently and which non-essential services that should only be available privately.

    Being a Royal Commission, it would be politically neutral and all interested parties would be consulted. The report would probably take 7-10 years to produce, but it would be worth the wait.

    The NHS has outgrown its original purpose, but it should be said also that a growing and aging population and the huge cost of some treatments carry a huge part of the blame for its current financial state.

    The size of the bureaucracy should be cut and the proceeds of the savings transferred into medical care, including dentistry and mental health.

  • Good idea OB.

    They could look at say ten countries with good systems and compare them to ours and pick the best bits from them. But, as you allude to, that won't change the fact that the population is getting older.

    And on bureaucracy, as we know from the covid inquiry, what a useless bunch of fookers they are.

  • Unfortuneately it is the aging population that paid taxes which funded the NHS for many years ... yes it has been 'free' at point of service or access BUT it was paid for by NI contributions.


    It is a misnomer to say that it has been 'free'


    Similarly social housing tenants paid rent for their homes, if there was a problem the council sent out dedicated staff who knew the properties and made repairs ... as with the NHS we now have social housing via contract to individual companies ... there can be several different ones within a county.


    Repetative/ongoing additional layers of 'management' fees eat into the money recovered from rents instead of being invested into the housing stock.


    The NHS is being treated in the same way.


    I think the idea of a Royal Comission review is excellent.

    There's a crack, a crack in everything

    That's how the light gets in.

    Leonard Cohen.

  • It is a misnomer to say that it has been 'free'

    It is to the user, but in essence your right, we all pay for it.

    The misnomer is that NI contributions are earmarked for anything specific, there are several stated benefits, job seekers and maternity, ESA and bereaement and pensions. Clearly it's spread thin, probably too thin. Sunak at least made an effort with his NI increase to help reduce waiting lists and to. fund social care, but it was as popular as genital warts and got scrapped.

    Personally my wife and I have taken steps to ensure that if one of us. has to go into care, they cannot touch the house. That 23k that people get left is barely enough these days for a half decent funera, leaving your loved ones with zero inheritance.

    I worked NHS 2015 -2020 it's a crap organisation to work force whether Clinical or support which I was. Nepotism is rife, managers couldn't. manage a beer fart in a whirlwind and they whinge to Olympic standards. I could give several examples, but I don't suppose it any different in any other health care trust up and down the country.

    In short, it needs a nuclear bomb and redesigned from top to bottom.

    Middle age is when your old classmates are so grey and wrinkled and bald they don't recognise you.

  • And I won't dare mention that the system is being overwhelmed by our foreign friends, either. I won't dare.

    Oops...

    Perhaps if we restore the system to being a National rather than International health service, that might be a good start.

    Every migrant knows that if you go into A&E, you get free healthcare and free prescription medicine. And yet, I've seen them still complain about the waiting times...:rolleyes:

  • I have just had a referral to physio confirmed ... followed by a note to say that there is a 5 month waiting list ... ahh well at least I am on a list :S


    I hope your referral comes through soon Horizon :)

    There's a crack, a crack in everything

    That's how the light gets in.

    Leonard Cohen.

  • At least you may get a proper physio. When I saw the physio in January, she told me to download the app and do it myself.

    What a waste of time.

  • That's appalling !!

    I hope they offered a follow up to see how things were.

    There's a crack, a crack in everything

    That's how the light gets in.

    Leonard Cohen.

  • The follow-up was to check I was following the app and make the referral.

    And, what pissed me off the most, when I went into the app for the first time, I had to fill in a questionnaire about the physio to get access to the app. This is the same person organising the referral... Of course, I said they were excellent. What other choice did I have?X(

    The whole system is broken.

    It's about The System, not about health and certainly not about prevention.

  • Row as breast cancer drug which extends lives of patients blocked by NHS over cost
    The move, described as a “dark day” by one cancer charity, will potentially affect thousands of patients
    www.independent.co.uk

    Okay, here's a topical story for this thread, as the subject of new drugs always comes up.

    If you have breast cancer, you'd want the best possible treatment, so the question is, should the NHS provide that treatment?

  • And to add, I still have my painful knees and waiting to get a referral. Waiting to get on the waiting list.:cursing:

    Ask for hydrocortisone injections, they aren't pleasant, but the effects last a few months. I have been walking through mine and if I'm honest it helps. Otherwise ask the GP for Naproxen 500mg wunderba.

    Middle age is when your old classmates are so grey and wrinkled and bald they don't recognise you.

  • The NHS was designed for 40m people, but as a result of Tony Blairs open door policy, and the failure of the Tories to correct his dreadful mistakes, we now have 70m people. It will never work in it's present form, so the entire thing needs throwing up in the air so we can start again. The first thing we need to do is a look at how countries with successful health services work, and stop kidding ourselves that the NHS is the jewel in the crown, because it certainly isn't

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!