The Great NHS debate

Please treat other members in a constructive manner and abide by our Forum Rules at all times.
  • Perhaps it would be better to limit who has access to the NHS and what services are offered free of charge. There is a lot of treatment in the NHS for conditions which are not really the reason why the NHS was set up i.e. Cosmetic Surgery, Fertility Treatments, elective non-urgent/critical procedures etc, as well as the myriad of Mental Health and Psychiatric treatments most of which are maladies of modern living rather than protection of the public from dangerous people. If the NHS was only available to UK citizens and outsiders were excluded from the free service the NHS would not be over run and there would be enough cash. Wasting resources on boob jobs and anxiety and freeloaders from overseas is where the money goes.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • How about limiting everyone to 4 free GP consultations per year. After 4 they would have to pay, that will get rid of a lot of malingerers? Obviously there would have to be exceptions to this for pensioners and children but for most healthy adults it could weed out the hypochondriacs.


    How about stopping people using A&E as an alternative to a GP, that will get rid of a load of freeloaders?

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • The NHS as we know is not free it has to be paid for, it is only Free when we need to use it


    Anyone who works and pay taxation the UK funds it no matter where they are from , some may not be able to work they are rightly looked after.


    I may be wrong but as I understand anyone who travels here from overseas holiday visit relatives, will be treated if they require treatment or surgery to save their life or make them stable enough so they can travel home to be treated at home.


    Again as far as I am aware they will have to pay if they can unless they come from a country that has an agreement with us in order that the NHS can claim the costs from their Government , or if they have travel insurance,


    As for refusing to treat certain ailments or conditions to save money , a non starter Doctors would not stand for it nor would the Nursing staff and who would do the selecting ? Would You ?


    Should we ban all smokers from any treatment, sports men and women dangerous sports, obese people, druggies and alcoholics the old those who are mentally ill ? been done by a certain nice man back in WW2.


    A very slippery slope downwards IMO


    Yes some people abuse the Ambulance System call them for a headache and splinter in their bum , or minor cut or graze, the same type of people abuse the A&E.


    No the system need changing run better and better value for our money, throwing more money at it year after year only delays the inevitable it will collapse

  • As for refusing to treat certain ailments or conditions to save money , a non starter Doctors would not stand for it nor would the Nursing staff and who would do the selecting ? Would You ?

    Yep

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • he NHS as we know is not free it has to be paid for, it is only Free when we need to use it


    Anyone who works and pay taxation the UK funds it no matter where they are from , some may not be able to work they are rightly looked after.

    Yes it is free because anyone in the UK can access it regardless of where they are from or whether they are paying tax. I pay income tax and National Insurance but neither are ring fenced for a specific purpose they are just general taxation dressed up as something else. I have no idea how much of my tax goes to the NHS each month or what it pays for. I have no choice about whether I pay or not so to all intents the service is free.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Should we ban all smokers from any treatment, sports men and women dangerous sports, obese people, druggies and alcoholics the old those who are mentally ill ? been done by a certain nice man back in WW2.

    No we should treat them all if their life is in danger if neglected. Clearly poor lifestyle choices are one of the things the NHS is trying to educate us about. Surely everyone can see the elderly are becoming a burden to society because they are living too long because of not smoking and eating shite. The outcome is instead of treating obesity and lung cancer they are nursing geriatric people who block beds rather than popping their clogs as they used to. No money has been saved, we now live in a nanny state that tells us what we can do so live long miserable lives. Especially with the squeeze on pensions as well as the NHS.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Your life style is your choice same as anyone else, as for Geriatrics nice touch my Mother is a Geriatric as you call them after her and Dad paid all their taxes ever since the NHS was put in place she is now in a Nursing Home needs 24 hours care advanced Dementia no idea who she is , cost is £1500 a week and the taxpayers are not paying for that.


    Care for the elderly after working and paying their way and taxes all their lives is disgraceful, if they had never worked , never saved , never bought their own home, like far too many did do she would get everything paid for .

  • Perhaps it would be better to limit who has access to the NHS and what services are offered free of charge. There is a lot of treatment in the NHS for conditions which are not really the reason why the NHS was set up i.e. Cosmetic Surgery, Fertility Treatments, elective non-urgent/critical procedures etc, as well as the myriad of Mental Health and Psychiatric treatments most of which are maladies of modern living rather than protection of the public from dangerous people. If the NHS was only available to UK citizens and outsiders were excluded from the free service the NHS would not be over run and there would be enough cash. Wasting resources on boob jobs and anxiety and freeloaders from overseas is where the money goes.

    Nail on head. The mental health thing is difficult as it's still relatively new and very little is understood about the brain from a psychiatric point of view, but it has gone to far and labelling things for the sake of labelling and experimentation.

    No we should treat them all if their life is in danger if neglected. Clearly poor lifestyle choices are one of the things the NHS is trying to educate us about. Surely everyone can see the elderly are becoming a burden to society because they are living too long because of not smoking and eating shite. The outcome is instead of treating obesity and lung cancer they are nursing geriatric people who block beds rather than popping their clogs as they used to. No money has been saved, we now live in a nanny state that tells us what we can do so live long miserable lives. Especially with the squeeze on pensions as well as the NHS.

    This too. Sometimes to save life's you have to kill first. A growing population for example is killing us all as more of earths resources are used up. Medical technology and keeping people alive for longer is not good for the population in general. If we took medical advancement back a few decades we would all be better off. Instead the way things are going we will have to use warfare to cull the human race and 'it will' end up as that as we all live like sardines in a can competing and fighting against each other. If warfare does not do it then disease and viruses will do it 'natural biological warfare' but even then we will try and resist with vaccines so nature then has to hit back twice as hard with a new stronger virus.


    What a wast of money when we can just let those who live to live and those who die to die. Survival of fittest...Darwinism and stop fucking with nature which is trying to put some balance back to life on earth. 'Life is Death and Death is Life'. I would also argue it's extremely cruel, selfish and uncompassionate to keep some people alive and the same applies to giving birth to a child into this world as it stands.

  • Well, I say if the NHS can’t cope, they should be finding them treatment in the private sector until we can get the waiting lists down to acceptable levels.


    We need better co-operation between the two sectors to get maximum benefits for patients.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Well, I say if the NHS can’t cope, they should be finding them treatment in the private sector until we can get the waiting lists down to acceptable levels.


    We need better co-operation between the two sectors to get maximum benefits for patients.

    I think that anyone who was trained by the NHS should be limited in the amount of private work they can do for a reasonable amount of time. So many senior doctors and consultants can only do NHS work for one or two days per week because they also run a private practice to bolster their already substantial NHS salaries.


    Maybe a licence to private practice is required with a qualification period of say 15 years NHS service as a pre-requisite. There would be more doctors available and they would need to perform well to qualify for the private practice licence.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Well, I say if the NHS can’t cope, they should be finding them treatment in the private sector until we can get the waiting lists down to acceptable levels.


    We need better co-operation between the two sectors to get maximum benefits for patients.

    That has been happening for a long time to try and reduce the NHS waiting lists during the pandemic my local NHS Trust sent patients needing urgent surgery were operated on in local Private Hospitals

  • I think that anyone who was trained by the NHS should be limited in the amount of private work they can do for a reasonable amount of time. So many senior doctors and consultants can only do NHS work for one or two days per week because they also run a private practice to bolster their already substantial NHS salaries.


    Maybe a licence to private practice is required with a qualification period of say 15 years NHS service as a pre-requisite. There would be more doctors available and they would need to perform well to qualify for the private practice licence.

    To the best of my limited knowledge Doctors Surgeons and Consultants that work in the NHS have a contract setting out the days hours they work within the NHS


    If they chose to also work in the Private Sector in their spare time they can do so the NHS is fully aware of this, they are permitted to do so as far as I am aware as long as it does not interfere with their contracted hours with the NHS.


    As for substantial salaries in the NHS , it depends on their knowledge and experience basic pay for a Doctor lower down the scale is roughly £50,000 a year, Consultant roughly £120,00 a year, many footballers earn more then that in a week.


    The Consultant Surgeons my wife works alongside are not young they have years of service and experience in the NHS, some of them still work within the NHS so many set days and hours a week and the Private Sector in their spare time, some have retired from the NHS and work a few days a week in the private sector.

  • Interestingly NHS hospitals will also have a floor dedicated to private patients. They get the same doctors and treatment that other patients get but they have better ward facilities, food and most likely get more one to one attention from ward hosts (nurses). I wonder if their operations also get scheduled priority. They shouldn't but I do wonder if this happens in which case that's an abuse of the NHS. Backdoor privatisation for those that can afford it.

  • As for substantial salaries in the NHS , it depends on their knowledge and experience basic pay for a Doctor lower down the scale is roughly £50,000 a year, Consultant roughly £120,00 a year, many footballers earn more then that in a week.

    I don't think we can reasonably compare different sectors of our economy. Sport traditionally has disproportionately higher rewards for its top performers because they tend to be exceptional at what they do and people will pay to see them in action which generates revenues. Doctors tend not to draw crowds to watch them perform so their rewards are commensurately smaller. It's just the way it is.

    To the best of my limited knowledge Doctors Surgeons and Consultants that work in the NHS have a contract setting out the days hours they work within the NHS


    If they chose to also work in the Private Sector in their spare time they can do so the NHS is fully aware of this, they are permitted to do so as far as I am aware as long as it does not interfere with their contracted hours with the NHS.

    And my point was if they were trained by the NHS they should work exclusively for the NHS for a period of time and I suggested 15 years before being authorised to work in the private sector. We tax payers are funding their training so we should see the benefit of it before allowing them to charge for their services. What you have done is explained the current NHS position and I have been pointing out that the NHS is mis-managed and this issue is just one example of that.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Interestingly NHS hospitals will also have a floor dedicated to private patients. They get the same doctors and treatment that other patients get but they have better ward facilities, food and most likely get more one to one attention from ward hosts (nurses). I wonder if their operations also get scheduled priority. They shouldn't but I do wonder if this happens in which case that's an abuse of the NHS. Backdoor privatisation for those that can afford it.

    Also access to drugs and techniques not available on the NHS

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • That has been happening for a long time to try and reduce the NHS waiting lists during the pandemic my local NHS Trust sent patients needing urgent surgery were operated on in local Private Hospitals

    In theory, but it’s not been happening in practice. Money the government gave to the NHS recently to assist them in referring people on for private care was never used. The NHS management appear to be making decisions on ideological grounds, which is completely wrong.


    My point is that there is spare capacity in the private sector and if the NHS cannot cope, they should utilise it.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • I don't think we can reasonably compare different sectors of our economy. Sport traditionally has disproportionately higher rewards for its top performers because they tend to be exceptional at what they do and people will pay to see them in action which generates revenues. Doctors tend not to draw crowds to watch them perform so their rewards are commensurately smaller. It's just the way it is.

    And my point was if they were trained by the NHS they should work exclusively for the NHS for a period of time and I suggested 15 years before being authorised to work in the private sector. We tax payers are funding their training so we should see the benefit of it before allowing them to charge for their services. What you have done is explained the current NHS position and I have been pointing out that the NHS is mis-managed and this issue is just one example of that.

    I agree with you on one point the NHS is inefficient badly run and costs Billions of pounds every year we cannot keep chucking money at it year after year its not financially viable there will come a time when we can no longer afford it


    As for footballers I have had no interest in football for at least 60 years , some of them are not the sharpest tools in the box, many of them serve a sort of apprenticeship then they can and do sell themselves to the highest bidder as their contracts run out as I did years ago whne my engineering apprenticeship was over


    Junior Doctors serve a type of apprenticeship it may take years to learn their skills they need to progress up the ladder, if and when if they attain the knowledge skills and experience they can as far as I am aware are then free to specialise either within the NHS or Private Practice or go abroad


    You cannot make people stay in a vocation calling for 15 years would you accept that ? I would not.

  • If the NHS stopped wasteing time and cash with shite like this it would be a good start...


    External Content youtu.be
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!