The Great NHS debate

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  • Those pictures do indeed exist of the PM with a glass in his hand. The police looked into that and determined that it was a work event at that point - a farewell speech by the boss, which is a normal feature of working life.

    I take your point about the party culture, although from what I picked up, he was unaware of these events, which appear to have been organised by the civil servants. He has acknowledged that there was a leadership vacuum there due to the fact that the PM cannot be expected to know what the staff are getting up to as he is too busy with the job of running the country. He has therefore reorganised how No 10 operates, to take account of this problem

    As far as Starmer is concerned, he’s the one who is responsible for making this into a big deal, which it really isn’t.

    Beergate is actually indicative of a worse breach of the regulations than Boris’s misadventure. The PM inadvertently broke the rules, having genuinely believed that as the cake presentation was a very quick event between meetings involving only the people he and others were freely mixing with anyway at the office, he was not committing an offence. Whereas Sir Kier was attending a beer and curry party AFTER work, which he should have known was wrong.

    However, even if Sir Kier is issued with a fine, it is still my view that neither man should be forced to resign for such trivial misdemeanours. If Sir Kier wants to be hoist by his own petard, however, that’s entirely up to him.

    Johnson has ignored the rules all his life.

    This wasn’t a one off ,there were multiple parties .

    Johnson was supposedly neither death with Covid yet he allows everyone to mix , just typical of the type of character he is

  • I think it is quite simple. There is a need for the NHS and Private healthcare systems. The NHS should have a strict mission of providing quality essential healthcare and emergency services and everything else goes to the private sector.

    Precisely what constitutes essential healthcare is going to be challenging to define. But I think the NHS is doing too much and is spread too thin.

    Also it has become politicised with all this diversity, inclusion and equality nonsense. All that Marxist shite needs to go as part of getting back on mission.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • I think it is quite simple. There is a need for the NHS and Private healthcare systems. The NHS should have a strict mission of providing quality essential healthcare and emergency services and everything else goes to the private sector.

    Precisely what constitutes essential healthcare is going to be challenging to define. But I think the NHS is doing too much and is spread too thin.

    Also it has become politicised with all this diversity, inclusion and equality nonsense. All that Marxist shite needs to go as part of getting back on

    it’s far from simple but I certainly agree that boundaries need to be set

  • Yes people should die. The more the better for the rest of us and ecology and life on earth. It would save the human race rather than drive us all to extinction. We humans are a plague on the planet. How we decide who lives and who dies is the difficult one but if we hold out long enough I'm sure war will sort things out somewhat. How we decide certainly should not revolve around money and privatisation is definitely not the answer. Maybe we should reverse medical tech 100 years because it no longer benefits us as a species.

    Music to my ears Norra, somebody who understands the issue. We have far to many people living in the country, and on the planet, but the plans of the more advanced countries appear to be focused around making us live longer and produce even more children. It is a massive problem, and all we do is attempt to cope with the symptoms, rather than the illness. Reducing child birth won't work because we end up with an older population and a smaller work force. In reality the tree needs trimming from the top, but society would never embrace my idea of a Logan's run scenario. Alternatively we could take a softer approach and enable voluntary euthanasia, but I don't think that would make a significant difference. It's a massive problem, and although I know the answers are complex, nothing will ever get done as long as the leaders of the world pretend the problem doesn't exist.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • What will happen is world war as we all compete for space and resources. Just think how bad it could get when the equatorial regions of the planet are no longer habitable because of the state of the environment and global warming. And if we don't reduce population through war then nature will do it for us. Whether that's biological or from extreme heat, floods, fire, earthquakes or whatever it wants to throw at us. I don't see death as negative and it's a problem that we see it from a morbid point of view. Even the way we make funerals all to be negative rather than positive. It's purely selfish because we will miss the person as is having kids to secure a relationship or you want someone to take care of you when older or simply want a new toy.

  • You two are such cheery old souls!

    Yeah, but Norra is right. OK, we won't be around when the problem really hits, but it will. I don't agree with him that nature will sort out the population though. We have become to clever, and when ever it throws something at us (like COVID or AIDS) we find cures.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • My non-expert view is that the NHS is a massive organisation and clearly reform and changes are needed. We all know it’s always under a lot of pressure and like any organisation of its size, it needs to adapt with the times.

    However I’m a strong believer that the publicly funded model free at the point of need must persist. I can’t even begin to imagine what an America/style privatised insurance-based system would be like, where those who can least afford it would not be able to use it.

    The NHS has many problems but I still think it’s a wonderful organisation and one which we should defend and that should still give us a huge source of national pride. It’s lasted all these years and we need to make sure it lasts many more years into the future.

  • My non-expert view is that the NHS is a massive organisation and clearly reform and changes are needed. We all know it’s always under a lot of pressure and like any organisation of its size, it needs to adapt with the times.

    However I’m a strong believer that the publicly funded model free at the point of need must persist. I can’t even begin to imagine what an America/style privatised insurance-based system would be like, where those who can least afford it would not be able to use it.

    The NHS has many problems but I still think it’s a wonderful organisation and one which we should defend and that should still give us a huge source of national pride. It’s lasted all these years and we need to make sure it lasts many more years into the future.

    We pay the second most per capita of any public health service in Europe, and it is amongst the worst. I for one have no pride it in at all. From personal experience I found it dreadful, albeit slightly better than nothing at all. Of course, depending on where you live, or what health issues you may have had, will alter your opinions.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • It has enough money. It just needs reform to not waste that money. Get rid of all the micro management for starters and centralise all products from chairs to drip lines from one distribution centre. One trust for all working together as a team instead of hospitals and departments within a hospital competing against each other to cut costs. I would estimate that 50% of the NHS is already privatised out. They also need to get rid of many of the more expensive agency workers.

  • My non-expert view is that the NHS is a massive organisation and clearly reform and changes are needed. We all know it’s always under a lot of pressure and like any organisation of its size, it needs to adapt with the times.

    However I’m a strong believer that the publicly funded model free at the point of need must persist. I can’t even begin to imagine what an America/style privatised insurance-based system would be like, where those who can least afford it would not be able to use it.

    The NHS has many problems but I still think it’s a wonderful organisation and one which we should defend and that should still give us a huge source of national pride. It’s lasted all these years and we need to make sure it lasts many more years into the future.

    I think most of us agree that a health service free at the point of delivery must continue to exist. But that doesn’t mean that the private sector cannot be part of that process.

    Unfortunately, the politicians who are able to change the way the NHS works appear to be paralysed into accepting what we already have. The longer this goes on, the bigger the problems will become and the more dissatisfaction will be experienced from patients.

    The NHS is not a ‘wonderful organisation’ and if you relied on it as much as some of us do, either for ourselves or our loved ones, you would come to realise this

  • I have never had a bad experience with the NHS over the years glad to say thankfully not needed to use it that much , however it is very slow takes weeks or months to get things done, wife had a bad accident in late 2020 they did a good job eventually, she is now back at work but still needs to see the Consultant Surgeon every two to three month

    In my opinion the NHS as large as it is cannot cope with the sheer number of people it has to deal with every 24 hours it does not have the capacity to do it not enough beds, no matter how much money we throw at it .

    I agree it is inefficient lots of waste, patients not turning up for appointments or even operations does not help at all it costs the NHS money

    I can see that we may have to change to a system similar to other EU Countries , where every adult has to have Private Medical Insurance in place , as well as contributing via taxation their system appears to me is far more efficient

  • I think most of us agree that a health service free at the point of delivery must continue to exist. But that doesn’t mean that the private sector cannot be part of that process.

    Unfortunately, the politicians who are able to change the way the NHS works appear to be paralysed into accepting what we already have. The longer this goes on, the bigger the problems will become and the more dissatisfaction will be experienced from patients.

    The NHS is not a ‘wonderful organisation’ and if you relied on it as much as some of us do, either for ourselves or our loved ones, you would come to realise this

    I’m certainly not going to pretend there aren’t problems. Admittedly I use the NHS less than many, however I went to A&E for a precautionary heart scan a few months ago. In total I waited 10 hours which I do think is unacceptable. It was quite clear how much pressure they were under.

    By wonderful though I do think the doctors and nurses and staff who work in it by and large do a great job under a lot of pressure and not blessed with lots of resources. Like you say, I feel most people continue to support an NHS free at the point of delivery and many are also uncomfortable with the idea of even parts of it being privatised which is why even Tory politicians wouldn’t consider it.

    I don’t know the answer to the NHS problems. A more joined up approach to social care would be a start as would better primary care services. I also think there is a lot of waste and bureaucracy in the NHS and money could be saved on all these top managers. Money and resources can always help and it shouldn’t just act as a sticking plaster and I accept that throwing more cash at the problem isn’t always going to solve it.

  • Even if we had the French system it would still be the same because the issue is with the management and so many departments separated and competing against one another to get numbers down and reach targets. Even the fact that we get sent back and forth from our GP to the hospital just to make an appointment in another department in the same hospital is stupid and notes are kept with the GP rather than moved around the hospital where data is sold to the US insurance companies and the rest of it. There's middle management buying stationary and other stuff from local shops when this could all be bought in bulk and stored in one central logistics that covers all the NHS rather than trusts working independently. As things stand it's a postcode lottery and that wont change until the structure is changed.

    The only reason the NHS appears to have to many patients is because of the way the have things setup so inefficiently. It's worse now that GPs are so useless and getting an appointment can take a week or so, now folk go straight to A&E instead. Then there's the issue of GP's not handing drugs out so easily, especially pain killers because the gov want them to clamp down on them and save on prescriptions which drives folk to purchase from abroad. All this goes unmonitored and causes worse issues further down the road making the NHS work much harder. We have had years of Gov interference with new mangers with no medical background, targets and everything else...basically sticking the boot in and killing off the NHS so they can privatise and as time goes on more and more of the NHS has been sold out. It started with optical care and dentistry, then food, then porters, cleaners and the list goes on.

    Agency staff cost a lot more and they use more agency staff than NHS employees to try and cut down on pensions and workers rights. There's zero hour contacts or bank staff to also make savings but on the other hand they don't get the same quality of service or peole so there is no care or teamwork as most of those folk are on short contracts or could be working one place one week and another place the next so no loyalty or care for your place of work.

  • NHS bosses come under fire for spending millions on 'woke non-jobs'
    More than £1million worth of 'equality, diversity and inclusion' related positions are on offer in hospitals and trusts across England and Wales, with most…
    www.dailymail.co.uk

    This is one reason why the NHS is in such a mess. We don’t need millions to be spent on woke and joke managers like this. I thought the Conservatives were going to crack down on this nonsense.

    They should conduct an audit and get rid of all these non-jobs.

  • https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1…ers-strike.html

    This is one reason why the NHS is in such a mess. We don’t need millions to be spent on woke and joke managers like this. I thought the Conservatives were going to crack down on this nonsense.

    They should conduct an audit and get rid of all these non-jobs.

    I don’t disagree that this is probably wasted money but amount is chicken feed.

    I was glad to read that government are suing the company that supplied useless PPE equipment that Baroness Mone allegedly advocated for .

    That could put £200 million back in bank

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