The Great NHS debate

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  • My Mother lives in a small former Cotton Mill Town in the Pennines, what prices may have been back in 2016 is not relevant today everything has gone up in price , as I stated if you don't have assets cash in the bank or own your home, the Local Council pays the bills, if you do have assets you pay

    As I am aware. My mother's care home bills vastly reduced my inheritance. I would have had no issue with my parents spending their last penny on enjoying themselves, but it irritates people who have done f all their lives and saved nothing get the same care when the time comes.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • In relation to your last line I agree but we cannot abandon those who could not work or save for any number of reasons , that is what Boris wanted to address but did not get the chance to do so

  • In relation to your last line I agree but we cannot abandon those who could not work or save for any number of reasons , that is what Boris wanted to address but did not get the chance to do so

    So what your saying is everyone should have the same level of care when they get old, regardless of whether they have worked and saved, or sat on their backsides during their life. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I would have to disagree

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • If one puts a capitalist head on instead of human then we could argue that the care we are given when old should be purely based on how much NHS contributions we have made throughout our life unless one has the money to go private.

  • If one puts a capitalist head on instead of human then we could argue that the care we are given when old should be purely based on how much NHS contributions we have made throughout our life unless one has the money to go private.

    But then it wouldn’t be a national health service.

  • In truth, having paid into something all your working life, which for most people is in excess of 40-45 yrs, is it so unreasonable to ask that should you require a care home that you get something a little more up market than someone whohas never or barely contributed to?

    Now, before those closet socialists come out and criticise, think about it with head and heart. I am NOT advocating the less fortunate or well off should not be catered for, but I am advocating to a lesser degree a 2 or 3 tier system.

    If I book a cruise we will invariably have a balcony cabin,£1k pp more than an internal cabin. I do that because I can and I want to. I don't take pity on some other fellow traveller and upgrade him, I merely acknowledge that he either can't afford to upgrade or is actually happy in an internal cabin. He eats the same as me, has access to the same facilities as me.

    If that sounds snobby I will say D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

    Those of you living down south in your own homes,will get a far higher return on an equivalent or even lesser standard home than those from the north simply by virtue of location alone. But as far as I am aware, there would be nothing stopping you going into a care home anywhere.

    Some will decry a 2 tier system, but if your contribution also includes several hundred thousand £'s more than your NI contribution more than others, then in my book your damn well ENTITLED to it.

    But if your sensible you will ensure your will is written in such a way that prevents your lifes work and saving being grabbed.

    I will openly say here that although I am not a rich man or even a wealthy man, I do not believe in this distribution of wealth shite pedalled by Labour and Liberals.

    What's mine is mine and they aren't getting it, even if I had to hide it in the woods.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • But then it wouldn’t be a national health service.

    And Bibbles would love that!

    D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

    What's that acronym stand for?

    Me....I have nothing. I work in a slightly above minimum wage job, a 'so called' living wage and all my money goes on 'existing'....rent, bills, food etc with very little left over each month. I won't even call it surviving, I'm just existing and it's certainly not a life. I can't afford a private pension or to increase my work pension and the only pensions I have ever had is the auto (NEST) pensions created through work. I have no assets apart from some tech equipment and furniture and I'm single. TBH I don't think I will live to an age where I can retire and will probably still be working in a minimum wage job until I die. The job may even kill me along with the stress. I wish I wasn't born. The most selfish thing anyone can do is bring kids into this world.

    What's mine is mine and they aren't getting it, even if I had to hide it in the woods.

    I also feel that way but we do have to have some humanity about us. The problem is not those living on benefits etc and our tax having to subsidise that. The problem is the wastage, back handers and corruption....management if you like. Why should we pay £1600 per week for care in private care homes. There should be much cheaper state funded council care homes. The facilities don't need to be luxurious but the care should be as good if not better. All the money we have tossed away on Ukraine would have been better spent going into the care system to build homes...not to mention the wastage spent on Immigration, the NHS and everything else. It's all 'take' 'take' 'take' and no 'give' 'give' 'give'.

    Minimum wage in London should be around £30 per hour. Agency workers cost about £35 per hour but the agency worker only gets £15 of that if they are lucky. How many agency workers are there in the NHS.....and folk have a moan up about paying nurses more. OK they have other benefits, more than most folk get and yet again it will be the tax payer paying for it, those like me already struggling on minimum wage so I get why folk are against them getting a rise. I'm not going to get a rise to match.

  • Both my parents were in a care home costing around £6500 every 4 weeks

    Many of the other people in there were funded by the council & it’s my understanding that though I can’t prove it is that the council pay less per person

    Those of us who are paying privately are actually subsidising the state funded people

  • Those of us who are paying privately are actually subsidising the state funded people

    That's actually a good thing but is it really subsidising. It's not like those high costs actually pay for the running of the place and bills. It's profits! and then these places are run by low wage workers....modern day slavery.

  • So what your saying is everyone should have the same level of care when they get old, regardless of whether they have worked and saved, or sat on their backsides during their life. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I would have to disagree

    If I don't type it I don't think it, and perhaps I have a little more compassion for others than you the days of the workhouse when you are old and destitute are over

  • My view is that everyone should be entitled to a comfortable and pleasant retirement in a home where they can no longer look after themselves.

    But it should also be possible for those with the money to be able to pay for more comfort in better care homes if they wish to do so.

  • My view is that everyone should be entitled to a comfortable and pleasant retirement in a home where they can no longer look after themselves.

    But it should also be possible for those with the money to be able to pay for more comfort in better care homes if they wish to do so.

    I agree the Rich can afford the better Nursing Homes, it is hard enough to find a vacancy in many Care Homes as it is

  • I agree the Rich can afford the better Nursing Homes, it is hard enough to find a vacancy in many Care Homes as it is

    I'm not talking about the rich, I'm talking about people who have worked for their living. My mother was in a caring but very basic care home. Her fees were about £100 a week more than what the council were paying. This was paid for through the compulsory sale of her house, whereas someone who hadn't bought a house or saved their money received the same care. Something is wrong with our system

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • I'm not talking about the rich, I'm talking about people who have worked for their living. My mother was in a caring but very basic care home. Her fees were about £100 a week more than what the council were paying.

    This is wrong , the government should start by making this practice illegal

    Those of us who are paying are subsidising the rest

  • Alot of people begrudge losing their pot destined to help their families after ther demise. Although I can relate to the state wanting to clawback some monies families although still not liking it, our see that through its use mum or dad have n upgraded room befitting their added contribution.

    No doubt lefties, liberals and socialists will decry this, is it truly less than someone deserves.

    I also believe that for a house valued above say £200k that for every £50k, £10k be added to what a person is entitled to keep to be passed on.

    More and more people are refusing to bank normally, are transferring their financial lives to close family members rather than have it stolen by the state.

    If one thinks of the arguments against euthanasia the above would fall into that snuggly, yet my brother in laws mother (rather recently deceased) has done just that fo almost everything.

    Of course that is dangerous, dishonesty aside there is still a requirement for her to live 7yrs to prevent him being subject to capital gains tax. His dad worked his whole life as a black servant, a teacher who finished as a headmaster. But if left the tax man's grubb hands would get first dibs, hopefully not now.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • I'm not talking about the rich, I'm talking about people who have worked for their living. My mother was in a caring but very basic care home. Her fees were about £100 a week more than what the council were paying. This was paid for through the compulsory sale of her house, whereas someone who hadn't bought a house or saved their money received the same care. Something is wrong with our system

    It is a fact the rich can afford to pay for the top of the range Care Homes , there is one not far from where I am a neighbour of ours was in it over 15 years ago and paying in excess of £2,000 a week back then, he could afford it

    My Mother was placed in a Nursing Home by the Local Welfare Officers in order to free up a NHS bed in her local hospital after an operation just as Covid was sweeping across the world in early 2020, she is still in there and very nice it is to,.

    It was only meant to be temporary so her fees initially were paid by the Local Council ( taxpayers) as my Dad who had been her sole carer for over 16 years was due to go into hospital himself for an operation, sadly he passed away soon after the op, now she has to pay for her care the Council still pays some of it.

    As and when her assets get as low as £23,000 as she is still with us, then the Council will pay her fees as they are for other residents in her Care Home.

    Most Care Homes are now privately owned many Local Authorities sold their Care Homes off years ago

    That is what Boris wanted to change as he quite rightly considered is was totally unacceptable that people who had worked and saved for years should have to pay for their Care if unable to care for themselves.

    That is why he asked all the MP's in the Commons to work together a Cross Party effort to try and find a solution to this problem, the silence from the opposition benches was deafening, it went on the back burner because of Covid, if it is resurrected or not in the near future we will have to wait and see.

  • I would suggest very strongly that anyone that has some savings and owns their own home should seek the advice of a Solicitor to put their house in order now , my Dad had which meant he would not lose his savings or the house they owned.

    That is why he passed Power of Attorney over to my twin sister and I before he went into Hospital, he also passed on 50% of our parents home to both of us, which means they cannot force Mum to sell her home to pay for her Care.

    She cannot make any decisions herself as she has advanced Dementia she has no idea where she is or even recognise her own family, the Solicitor now controls everything , the local Magistrates Court gave my sister and I the authority to look after her affairs via the Solicitor if that had not been in place she would have nothing left.

  • 'My NHS hell waiting for surgery and information'
    When former BBC correspondent Rory Cellan-Jones broke his elbow he waited days for an operation.
    www.bbc.co.uk

    I don't know if anyone saw this, but it's the first accurate piece about the NHS, that I've ever come across from the BBC. And when I say accurate, I mean based on my own experiences. Of course, others could have completely different experiences.

    The BBC et all, always carp on about how wonderful the NHS is, but this gives a true account of what things are like and his experiences are mild compared to many.

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