Do We Have A Powerful Enough Military To Protect Us?

  • Rule Britannia, not any more....


    We used to have the most powerful military in the world. Our army has been savagely cut. We have a some fighter jet squadrons and a handful of warships? Is that enough to protect us, especially if Putin wishes to start something?

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  • Give me £20billion or I'll bring you down: Defence Secretary’s astonishing threat to Theresa May in bitter row over military cuts

    Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson has threatened to sweep Theresa May from power in a bitter Cabinet row over military cuts.

    Furious Mr Williamson warned the Prime Minister that if she did not commit an extra £20 billion to the Ministry of Defence then Tory MPs would vote down the next Budget – effectively passing a motion of no confidence in her.

    ‘I made her – and I can break her,’ Mr Williamson is said to have boasted to service chiefs.

    The furore, described by one Williamson ally as a ‘dogfight at the heart of Government’, erupted after Mrs May announced a £20 billion-a-year boost to NHS spending last week.

    This is the front page of Mail on Sunday today.


    I'll edit my original post at some point and include additional details of what the current state of our military is, but compared to even twenty years ago, it is woefully lacking.


    Leaving aside the toy boy threats as I don't know if they're true or not, do we need to bolster our military forces? We can only spend on education, health etc if we have a country. Defence should always be number one, should it not?

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  • The problem is with each and every successive government promising to cut taxes as a major vote winner the cuts have to be made somewhere they only have a finite amount of money to spend unless they want to borrow huge amounts, doesn't help when voters want to pay less tax and are going to vote for whoever offers them the best tax cuts, we seem to want our cake but we don't want to pay for it or not too much for it at least.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • I would rather spend £20 billion on defence than throw it into the black hole called the NHS , we need more ships as the number one priority , our naval strength is embarassing and the navy promotes a tangible presence around the world unlike a passing aircraft does.So much wastage is in the system but then again when governments are involved , it always has.

  • The problem is with each and every successive government promising to cut taxes as a major vote winner the cuts have to be made somewhere they only have a finite amount of money to spend unless they want to borrow huge amounts, doesn't help when voters want to pay less tax and are going to vote for whoever offers them the best tax cuts, we seem to want our cake but we don't want to pay for it or not too much for it at least.

    But the defence budget is still huge at £35bn according to these figures from 2017. Where does it all go? And that links directly to:

    I would rather spend £20 billion on defence than throw it into the black hole called the NHS , we need more ships as the number one priority , our naval strength is embarassing and the navy promotes a tangible presence around the world unlike a passing aircraft does.So much wastage is in the system but then again when governments are involved , it always has.

    We need more ships, especially with two new aircraft carriers to protect. The last time I checked a few months ago, our new T45 destroyers were all in port at Portsmouth undergoing repairs. I agree about wastage, hence my comment where all the money goes.


    The NHS needs money too, but our defence should be top priority above everything else, shouldn't it?

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  • Half of the problem is being a member of NATO and it's so easy to rely on the assistance of others. It's all too easy to let other members use their money to take up the slack.


    Among European countries we are far from being the worst offenders, but military might is important in this increasingly unstable world. Personally, I think those NATO members who shirk their promises should be suspended until they meet their obligations. We could all use the money on other things but we should all take our responsibilities seriously and defence should rate a high priority.

  • Ahh, your using Trump's argument there, Fidget. I'll get into that on one of the American threads, but regardless of whether other NATO countries meet their commitments or not, we need to be strong ourselves. Fully agree it needs to be our highest priority.


    Can you imagine the Americans reducing their navy down to six destroyers that are faulty and thirteen old frigates, oh and a couple of reduced capability carriers, when/if they come on stream? As for our army.... As Putin likes to quip, "we are a country of fighters with no army." Couldn't have put it better myslef.

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  • Is this to protect this country from an invasion? From Russia? Aren't they already here? From the world of Islam? They're here too, we even made one a mayor of our capital. From Africa and the Middle East? They come mostly through Europe and we're taking good care of them - and their mosques - partly so they don't attack us and partly because we can barely tell the difference between tolerance and submissiveness


    Or perhaps the strengthening of our military is so we go on a shooting jamboree with America, to bomb, invade and occupy other countries that are obnoxious and have a tinpot military like ours, thereby creating new enemies disguised as a swarm of helpless passive refugees (with some adorable plaintive blood splattered kids, ie tomorrow's terrorists), who will arrive at our shores and once fed, housed and employed - or given unemployment pay - will prove to be a lot less helpless and passive than imagined by our true enemy within, viz neo-liberal fascists.


    Alternatively, we can spend the money on the NHS who, with an army of suits and syringe-armed nurses, can kill waste-of-space elderly citizens in a comforting manner, supplemented with a tolerable degree of collateral damage amongst young relatively healthy people, where these deaths are acceptable thanks to being free at the point of delivery.

  • Is this to protect this country from an invasion? From Russia?

    They'll do for a good start yes, as they keep probing our seas and airspace.

    Aren't they already here? From the world of Islam? They're here too, we even made one a mayor of our capital. From Africa and the Middle East? They come mostly through Europe and we're taking good care of them - and their mosques - partly so they don't attack us and partly because we can barely tell the difference between tolerance and submissiveness

    , thereby creating new enemies disguised as a swarm of helpless passive refugees (with some adorable plaintive blood splattered kids, ie tomorrow's terrorists), who will arrive at our shores and once fed, housed and employed - or given unemployment pay - will prove to be a lot less helpless and passive than imagined by our true enemy within, viz neo-liberal fascists.


    The immigration thread is here: The Great Debate on Immigration, Race and Religion in the UK


    I don't disagree and if it were my choice, immigration would be viewed as a defence/national security matter.


    Or perhaps the strengthening of our military is so we go on a shooting jamboree with America, to bomb, invade and occupy other countries that are obnoxious and have a tinpot military like ours,

    The one thing I dislike is everything labelled under defence.


    Defence, to me, means defending our home. Protecting our seas and skies, as soon as we go beyond our territory, we get into strategic "interests" which is far more than just defence.

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