What is the point of the police?

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  • They have a role, but it’s just to deal with minor issues. But I agree with you, they should be replaced by real coppers.

  • When I first joined Surrey police, my first station was semi rural. You couldn't respond to much without a car.

    The forces driving policy was that they had 5 driving grades. Class 5 was to enable the likes if me at that time, to take a marked police car in order to complete enquiries or to take a report, for example of a crime reportedly that happened overnight, but not to travel on blues and two's or to carry out moving vehicle stops.

    Class 4 was also referred to as the standard driving qualification, this enabled those things absent above, but was not a pursuit qualification, speed limits could be broken but red lights must be treat as a give way, keep left bollards ignored etc.

    Class 3 all the above but with pursuits all using vehicles up to 2.0ltr.

    Class 2 and 1 were traffic advanced qualifications.

    PCSO's came in after my time, less use than a special constable who at least had a warrant card and the required arrest powers,

    This PCSO seen sitting in a car is subject to all this crap, but no means of defending himself, no baton, no cuffs, no CS spray. As such they are incredibly vulnerable and anyone who has studied first aid or control and restraint, which I doubt they are taught, knows that by becoming a casualty you help no one. Where this officer was wrong is that his job should have been to get into a position to observe and report.

    Ending up dead or seriously injured may appease some who think they are useless, but actually serves no purpose. I will refrain from calling them as having never worked with one I am not in a position to comment. I have taken out cadets, similar but younger generally, most of whom would get stuck in if you were having problems.

    So please don't be so disingenuous, clearly someone somewhere thinks they are an asset.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • Last few nights I have watched a mini set of documentary from C4 I believe entitled TO CATCH A COPPER.

    The female Chief Constable of Avon and Somerset invited cameras to follow her complaints and discipline section.

    There were 3 programmes, all worth watching, all thought provoking and even irritating. I was shocked if I'm honest by the way things are portrayed in some areas, officers stupidity in others and the amount of race issues now present in day to day policing.

    The last programme I watched revolved predominantly around two incidents,one of which was extensively posted on SM. I was seriously taken back by community leaders who seemed unable to see beyond the officers skin colour. They also seemed to come across as expecting that they should be treat differently because of their skin colour. But in one of these incidents a female who pava sprayed another female, having been completely and totally exonerated was then expected to go through what they called " reflective practice". That RP I can understand if an officers behaviour was deemed to fall short, or be say too abrasive or similar. But this girl had none of that and I found it quite demeaning. The credits at the end of that programme shocked me even more, but I won't elaborate there in case anyone feels inclined to watch was very thought provoking.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • Last few nights I have watched a mini set of documentary from C4 I believe entitled TO CATCH A COPPER.

    The female Chief Constable of Avon and Somerset invited cameras to follow her complaints and discipline section.

    There were 3 programmes, all worth watching, all thought provoking and even irritating. I was shocked if I'm honest by the way things are portrayed in some areas, officers stupidity in others and the amount of race issues now present in day to day policing.

    The last programme I watched revolved predominantly around two incidents,one of which was extensively posted on SM. I was seriously taken back by community leaders who seemed unable to see beyond the officers skin colour. They also seemed to come across as expecting that they should be treat differently because of their skin colour. But in one of these incidents a female who pava sprayed another female, having been completely and totally exonerated was then expected to go through what they called " reflective practice". That RP I can understand if an officers behaviour was deemed to fall short, or be say too abrasive or similar. But this girl had none of that and I found it quite demeaning. The credits at the end of that programme shocked me even more, but I won't elaborate there in case anyone feels inclined to watch was very thought provoking.

    To try and get a 360 view of the programme I just read the Daily Mail and Guardian reviews of it. Both say the police conduct and investigations were poor but I suggest convey a different issue: we recruit too many police officers unable to cope with a virtually impossible job and we do that because our police budgets are woefully inadequate to deliver the police service we need.

    And of course that we are not addressing why so so many of the public are having mental episodes and the inadequate provision of mental health services to deal with that. We just ignore the root causes and dump the end problem on our overloaded police. Not a stable nor fair position. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1…documetary.html and https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2…fe-line-of-duty

  • To try and get a 360 view of the programme I just read the Daily Mail and Guardian reviews of it. Both say the police conduct and investigations were poor but I suggest convey a different issue: we recruit too many police officers unable to cope with a virtually impossible job and we do that because our police budgets are woefully inadequate to deliver the police service we need.

    The best way to get a takeaway on the programmes are to watch them. Some of it was about race, MH, swearing, excessive or illegal force and notwithstanding public opinion/perception.

    Ironically in the first episode a serial suicide attempted, it was only late in the episode that one senior officer/investigator iirc said he believed our cops can suffer from compassion fatigue. In essence going from incident to incident., MH, assaults and domestic issues can leave officers running on empty where compassion is concerned. Even though acknowledged it changes nothing. I found that in the NHS, especially where mental health is concerned.

    The last episode watched last night, made me so glad I am no longer a cop, or was ever a cop in the city. Generally city policing is more IN YOUR FACE as for those poor sods it really is a conveyor belt.

    As for the investigations, not poor, biased and not in the officers favour. It wasn't until last night's 3rd episode that I saw them side with the officers, but that couldn't be said for chief inspector or above. Policing is a young man's game nowadays, young men are generally fitter and stronger due to their desire to impress and the associated gym work. Even a woman can be difficult to hold properly because they know you can't hit them. I didn't get the impression that the bodycam made any difference. But never mind my take, watch it and tell me what you think, it is eye opening.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • We live in times where we seem to expect so much of everyone and from everything, policing is once again thrust into the spotlight.

    Yesterday, the guy responsible for the double murder of his ex. girlfriend and her latest boyfriend got a whole life sentence. According to the news there a around a hundred or so such people locked up on these sentences, but I wonder if it's just me, but it feels like we've had. loads in the last decade.

    Anyway, the criticism is that this guy was a serial batterer and that he wasn't locked up earlier. He had over 20 iirc convictions for domestic violence, yet what he did in this case I personally don't consider qualifies as domestic violence. I say that because she was his ex girlfriend, as if there is a time frame from splitting up that the domestic side falls off.

    Likewise, the enquiry into Wayne Couzens states he should never have become a police officer, we needed an enquiry to ascertain that, no wonder the country is running out of money.

    There is no doubt that mistakes get made, in recruiting, vetting, investigating and reporting, but as an ex cop I feel that the service I represented is getting a real undeserved hammering of late. Anyone ever involved in or has been subjected to vetting will tell you that it's not an exact science. Things can be triggered in people through. trauma, or illness or other such occurrence in life. These are. impossible to detect beforehand and often difficult to detect once there.

    But the public's perceived ideas of what cops are ultimately. responsible for, at what point in a cases progression that they've done all they can with what they have. We are all blessed with hindsight.

    My youngest daughter is a social worker in children's services and when we look back to some of the notorious cases of the last decade, you'd be forgiven for thinking that getting the job done would be easier, WRONG, it's a nightmare getting courts to remove kids. Likewise it's hard to get a restraining orders with power of arrest attached. Police are almost powerless in those cases without them.

    But even if a power of arrest was given, it's simply NOT possible for the police to watch said assholes to ensure he complies. Therefore when he then goes around to her flat, holds the babysitter at knife point, waits his ex's return, stabs her 99x, uses her mobile to get the latest beau to come around and stabs him twenty odd times. Gets the neighbours to come see his handiwork, returns and rapes the babysitter all before handing himself into the police. Someone needs s to tell the public that MINORITY REPORT was just a fiction film.

    How do we overcome this before such things result in a breakdown in law and order?

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • Overwhelmingly most police are good guys doing their best but they are overwhelmed by the task, not well supported by both the low budgets and the benign courts and have too many bad apples in barrels so have lost the support of too many of the public. And effective fair policing is impossible without the support of the public.

    Those police that knew that Couzens was well sus and did nothing and in effect acquiesced in some of his precursor crimes shouldn't just be thrown out (and not all have) but should actually be in jail. I won't hold my breath.

  • Those police that knew that Couzens was well sus and did nothing and in effect acquiesced in some of his precursor crimes shouldn't just be thrown out (and not all have) but should actually be in jail. I won't hold my breath.

    On that I concur, but getting the evidence on that is not an easy task.

    I often wonder if we are trying to hold our cops to a standard we aren't prepared to hold other far more powerful people to, of course the political class springs to mind immediately.

    In addition, calls for officers suspensions and dismissals based simply on allegation is not acceptable, no person in any profession should be so judged.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • We should always hold people to account when they have certain powers. They work for the people under seriously fixed constitutional tenets, and doctrines.

    I want every person, every group, every unit of people who have the power to put me in handcuffs and lock me up to be held to account. All people who commit a criminal offence should and must be arrested. No matter their religion, ethnicity, sexual preference etc etc .

    I support good cops and challenge bad cops. Like you, I have dealt with violent and subversive criminals.

    The Rule Of Law must be observed and applied.

    8|Do not trade me a Rabbit and hand me a Hare. (I know the strain of species in Leporidae).

    Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

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