The Great Debate about the BBC and Licence Fee

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  • I wouldn't call them non profit otherwise everyone that worked for the BBC would work for free or they would trade as a charity. oh yeh charity...that's a money earner for them. Bias affairs and lefty woky shite is not an argument any more because ITV and other channels are all just as bad in that area and are getting worse. That is a plague of society and not the BBC. The BBC produce no better content than any other channels. In fact they all seem to repeat and copy each other. Even the storylines in soaps as they compete they seem to copy each others storylines. There was a time when the BBC stood out as something for other channels to aspire too but no more. Don't forget the BBC had it's heyday before any other channels arrived. I don't belive TV is something that should be paid for to watch. You should be able to buy a TV switch it on and watch. It should be like open source software.

  • It looks like the BBC isn’t going down without a fight!

    https://inews.co.uk/news/media/bbc…-viewing-917014

    Hopefully, the government will resist such calls and bring its ‘public service broadcasting’ remit up to date to fit in with today’s and tomorrow’s TV environment.

    [EXTRACT]

    The BBC is calling for legislation to ban the sale of ‘plug-in’ devices, such as Amazon’s Fire TV Stick, that allow global tech giants to dictate the viewing choices of millions of Britons.

    The rise of smart TVs and on-demand viewing is threatening the prominence that the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and other UK public service broadcasters have traditionally enjoyed on electronic programme guides (EPG).

    Instead of an EPG, smart TVs present viewers with ’tiles’ offering direct access to streaming platforms such as Netflix, Disney, YouTube and Amazon Prime.

  • I don't really care what the BBC does, except that they stop robbing the public with their TVLicense demands and punitive action when not paid. As soon as the license fee is no more, the BBC will have to produce current affairs programmes of interest to all viewers and not just the Ultra far left to keep their audience.

    The Voice of Reason

  • Hopefully, the government will resist such calls and bring its ‘public service broadcasting’ remit up to date to fit in with today’s and tomorrow’s TV environment.

    Amazon, Netflix etc simply don't have a PSB remit. It's up to the DCMS to ensure that public service broadcasters get the appropriate level of prominence. Also for Ofcom to ensure that regulations are followed.

    I seriously doubt that sales of plug in devices will be outlawed, it would be like making a law to ban the internet, where such services are made available. The plug in devices simply bring the content to more traditional equipment such as TVs. Whether or not the DCMS decide to regulate PSB prominence on these devices is another matter. All recent changes in policy have indicated that the DCMS are tightening up on such policies, not relaxing them.

    There's nothing unusual in the comments coming from the BBC or from ITV. I would expect the PSBs to lobby for their services to continue to be protected but would also expect them to live up to their PSB commitments and not continually try to dilute them.

  • I seriously doubt that sales of plug in devices will be outlawed

    What about KODI. I know it's not really a plug-in device and is software but the sales of devices with that installed and I think some devices that are capable of having it installed have been banned on places like UK eBay and other places are clamping down on it.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/pub…reaming-devices

    https://www.gov.uk/government/new…-call-for-views

  • The devices aren't illegal. KODI and Android boxes are mentioned in your links but they are legitimate software / devices. The problem starts when software is installed on the devices to stream pirated content. But pirated content can also be streamed to a basic mobile phone, laptop or desktop computer. The devices aren't going to be outlawed because someone can install dodgy software or apps on them. Devices specifically sold, pre-installed with software designed to infringe copyright, are another matter - it is already illegal to sell such, adapted, devices. But this is straying off-topic and copyright infringement wasn't the issue raised.

    As far as protection of PSB prominence goes, maybe the DCMS needs to broaden the broadcasting acts to include streaming apps in the legislation. I'm not entirely sure how it could be globally enforced. It is possible, and legal, to purchase TV's and set top boxes that don't comply with the Freeview spec. and allow channels to be ordered by the viewers preference, so no PSB prominence there. There will always be non-mainstream devices and devices sourced from overseas that will not be covered by PSB prominence legislation.

    PSB prominence can only really be enforced for licensed services using mainstream devices. The trick is to tie streaming services into broadcasting legislation and enforcing PSB prominence on their approved devices and apps.

    Edited 3 times, last by jj20x (March 21, 2021 at 7:56 AM).

  • I just love all that technical stuff------ BUT getting back to
    The Great Debate on the BBC, Licence Fee.

    The BBC is wasting money hand over fist by paying over the odds for unnecessary outside broadcasts, minority interest programmes ,mediocre presenting staff and news readers. A rationalisation of wasted expenditure could result in a restoration of free license for over 75's.

    A good start could be made by dispensing with Gary Lineker and Maga Munchetty.. then go on to the vast army of other staff with obscene salaries.

    There is much savings to be made, it just needs Strong Intelligent management.

    The Voice of Reason

  • The Culture Minister is still looking at the subscriptions replacing the licence fee, and that is his preferred option. This means everyone will access the BBC channels with the aid of broadband, not with television aerials.

    https://www.tvbeurope.com/business/whitt…speed-broadband

    I think it is worth pointing out that John Whittingdale is only a junior minister within the DCMS and it's telling that the Secretary of State for Culture, Oliver Dowden, whilst voicing doubts about the BBC culture, hasn't been critical of the licence fee.

    John Whittingdale previously held the role as Secretary of State under the Cameron administration for a short while but was quickly replaced in a cabinet reshuffle under the May administration. His opposition to the licence fee is well known and not an uncommon viewpoint within the Conservative Party. Over the years, there have been several consultations about BBC funding and, as yet, none of them have come up with a better or workable solution.

    It's interesting that Whittingdale was given a junior role in the DCMS while Dominic Cummings played an influential role at 10 Downing Street. Cummings wanted to destroy the BBC and Whittingdale, with his well known opposition to the licence fee was an ideal candidate. The media phobic waves of the Cummings era have calmed somewhat since his departure.

    It is also telling that, in the link you have supplied, Whittingdale himself admits that the licence fee cannot be scrapped “whilst a significant proportion of the population relies on Freeview” to watch the BBC. Sure, the threat of removal of the TV licence at the next Charter renewal has been made, but it has been made before. It will be interesting to see how the Charter renewal negotiations go, but that's a few years away.

  • They wouldn't need to just rely on broadband to charge for a BBC subscription as most flatscreen tvs have a com port which can be used for a subscription card all they need to do is issue customers who subscribe to a TV licence with it in the form of a card, the technology is already there they just need to make use of it. 🙄

  • They wouldn't need to just rely on broadband to charge for a BBC subscription as most flatscreen tvs have a com port which can be used for a subscription card all they need to do is issue customers who subscribe to a TV licence with it in the form of a card, the technology is already there they just need to make use of it. 🙄

    They are largely obsolete or meant for overseas systems. Freeview / DTT doesn't have any form of conditional access. The last time conditional access was present on DTT was for Top Up TV and that wasn't exactly a sweeping success.

  • They are largely obsolete or meant for overseas systems. Freeview / DTT doesn't have any form of conditional access. The last time conditional access was present on DTT was for Top Up TV and that wasn't exactly a sweeping success.

    I'm sure it could be adapted to allow access without much fuss.

  • I'm sure it could be adapted to allow access without much fuss.

    It really couldn't, not many TVs actually have a CA slot. Equipment made to any of the recent Freeview specs won't have them. Older equipment from the On Digital and TUTV era may have the slots but will be largely obsolete by now. The latest CA systems use card free encryption, so the TV would need a return path to work, which brings us back to broadband access.

    The cost would be enormous, even just to set up a subscription management centre. Also, lots of consumer equipment would need to be upgraded. Just as the Government hasn't mandated an upgrade to DVB-T2, they won't mandate conditional access on DTT. It would involve funding any necessary enforced upgrades to consumer equipment (as happened with the enforced digital switchover and upgrades made necessary by surrendering UHF bandwidth to mobile operators). Not something they would consider when the lifespan of DTT is now somewhat limited.

    Other than that, the BBC PSB licences and BBC Free To Air multiplex licence prohibit encryption, so it couldn't really be introduced before the multiplex licences are renewed and / or the next charter renewal. Basically, that's why John Whittingdale has conceded that the licence fee cannot be scrapped “whilst a significant proportion of the population relies on Freeview” to watch the BBC.

  • Okay, as you can see from the label above this post, I've renamed the BBC thread to The Future of TV. As very similar issues were also discussed in the The Streaming Wars. Will it kill off the broadcasters? thread, that thread has now been closed.

    Please use this central thread for all discussion about the future of tv including, but not excluding the following:

    The future of Public Service Broadcasting

    The future of the BBC

    The licence fee

    Whether they'll be any tv channels in the future

    The impact of steaming services on broadcasters

    and ANY related topics on the subject to do with the future of television.

    Will it even be called tv in the future?

  • Will it even be called tv in the future?

    I’m sure it will. I know that in the beginning, most people watched streamers through their computers, but this is no longer the case. Most people now, at least according to the people I mix with (young and old) watch streaming content through their big TV screens, which is surely the best way to appreciate it.

    Preferably, in UHD!

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