Should there be a second referendum on leaving the EU?

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  • Originally Thatcher was very pro EU, but then she got to know them and that soon changed.:)

    But she destroyed a big part of the UK industry... she was the first, after that Blair has finished the job.

  • Yes Rob you are right. The British know-how is taking some damages, but it is not just the fact of the EU, it began in the 80's with Thatcher...

    I find here a funny but serious serious research and video about Brexit where it is explained what we should know about that. Very interesting.

    Thanks for the video Jack. It's witty in the way it puts people's mind at rest on what might concerns them about Brexit ... it is of course aimed successfully at people who have hardly any mind worth speaking of - which is why it doesn't even try to explain how we might fill the deficit by trading outside the EU. As for the federalisation of Europe and loss of Britain's sovereignty, this audience's response would be "wha?"

    Couldn't agree with you more that it started to go bad when Thatcher was leader. Or to be precise, when she shifted from a intelligent gutsy reformer to a somewhat ga ga despot, primarily promoting herself, often with shallow phrases or cheap gestures. At which point the Tory MP's kicked her out before she did more damage. They don't make Tory MP's like that any more. Nor Labour MP's. Which is why Theresa May is still there damaging an already damaged Britain

    I know Thatcher is usually blamed for destroying British manufacturing but I've never been entirely sure it was her. I can't help feeling that Britain's pursuit of an easy fast buck came from a permissive society that took hold well before Thatcher arrived on the scene. I'm not sure how Thatcher or anyone could have reversed that trend which had become ingrained. In a way, Tony Benn and Harold Wilson had a better gleam in their eye for replacing heavy low-tech manufacturing ( which was more cost-effective for a Third World) when they talked of "the white heat of technology". But political slogans alone won't cut it. Besides, "Thatcher's Children" just wanted to go into law or hotel management or "mediya" or sports physiotherapy or start a rock group or whatever. The hopelessly ill-educated became garbage-collectors, shop assistants, shelf-stackers, white van drivers or supplemented their unemployment benefit with street crime. From Authoritarianism to Permissiveness to Affluence to Effluence!

    My cynicism is a mask for depression over what should have been.

    Happy New Year

  • And he promoted his pet Rottweiler (Selmayr) in a very underhanded and unorthodox manner.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Juncker and Selmayr, diabolical.

    Thank heavens we're leaving and can enjoy our sovereignty, rules and procedures a democracy second to none and a Prime Minister with so much fortitude and sense of duty that nothing will prevent her from remaining as this country's Leader until Jeremy Corbyn takes over and adds the finishing touches to her extraordinary ground breaking initiatives. Lucky

    Well done Brexiteers, in putting the Grate back into in Britain. Lucky us. Have a Grate New Year

  • And he promoted his pet Rottweiler (Selmayr) in a very underhanded and unorthodox manner.

    Lol. But he is already a man with no othodox manner XD. The problem is not Juncker, the problem is the EU peoples that consider him and Brussels like gods. Where what they say couldn't be discussed... There is no counsciousness from peoples. It seems that the freedom of movement is more important and better than economic situation and the lack of sovregnity.

  • Juncker and Selmayr, diabolical.Thank heavens we're leaving and can enjoy our sovereignty, rules and procedures a democracy second to none and a Prime Minister with so much fortitude and sense of duty that nothing will prevent her from remaining as this country's Leader until Jeremy Corbyn takes over and adds the finishing touches to her extraordinary ground breaking initiatives. LuckyWell done Brexiteers, in putting the Grate back into in Britain. Lucky us. Have a Grate New Year

    Yeah, wait and see... Don't forget that they have sign a transitional agreement renewable as many times as necessary so always freedom of circulation for people, EU market... It seems that nothing would change.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/…22-says-barnier

  • Lol. But he is already a man with no othodox manner XD. The problem is not Juncker, the problem is the EU peoples that consider him and Brussels like gods. Where what they say couldn't be discussed... There is no counsciousness from peoples. It seems that the freedom of movement is more important and better than economic situation and the lack of sovregnity.

    It is only more important to simpletons , AKA Remainers.

  • Yeah, wait and see... Don't forget that they have sign a transitional agreement renewable as many times as necessary so always freedom of circulation for people, EU market... It seems that nothing would change.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/…22-says-barnier

    The transitional agreement only applies if the UK signs a deal (whether it be May's or another one) with the EU. No deal, no transitional agreement.

  • The transitional agreement only applies if the UK signs a deal (whether it be May's or another one) with the EU. No deal, no transitional agreement.

    Oh I didn't know that, thank you for the news.

  • It's why I've warmed to a no-deal scenario with the EU now, because if we enter this transitional period under May's deal, the EU totally control that and we'd be trapped in it for ever. Better to leave and take our money, and then speak trade afterwards, which is want the EU want to do anyway. They want to speak trade with us after March, but only after we've handed them £39bn for the privilege on sitting at a table with them...

    There is no other trade deal in the world that exists where one country agrees to hand over a sum of money to the other country just for the right to negotiate the trade deal, let alone agree it. That is what May's deal entails and why nobody likes it.

  • It's why I've warmed to a no-deal scenario with the EU now, because if we enter this transitional period under May's deal, the EU totally control that and we'd be trapped in it for ever. Better to leave and take our money, and then speak trade afterwards, which is want the EU want to do anyway. They want to speak trade with us after March, but only after we've handed them £39bn for the privilege on sitting at a table with them...

    There is no other trade deal in the world that exists where one country agrees to hand over a sum of money to the other country just for the right to negotiate the trade deal, let alone agree it. That is what May's deal entails and why nobody likes it.

    I totally agree with you. May's popularity is very low currently, I don't think her deal with EU will be a flop, British don't want it, EU doesn't seem to want it. Currently EU has a pretentious position, due to the fear to see other EU countries "wake up" and to prove to UK is nothing without EU...

  • Their pretentious will be their downfall.

    I found this survey on playOJO stating that Theresa May is the most unfairly treated person of 2018 XD. What do you think?

    Top 10 most unfairly treated people of 2018:

    1. Theresa May

    2. Ryan Thomas

    3. Jeremy Corbyn

    4. Naomi Osaka

    5. Donald Trump

    6. Geraint Thomas

    7. Coleen Nolan

    8. Caster Semenya

    9. Raheem Sterling

    10. Laura Anderson

    unfarily-treated-person-grid_new-300x200.jpg

  • I don't know of half the people on that list, but I certainly wouldn't have Theresa May on it. Her problems are self-inflicted, just as the EU's problems are mostly self-inflicted. I don't feel any sympathy for people who have caused their own misery, and have been castigated for it.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Just heard an example of referendums working against the majority on BBCradio5 , New Zealand had one on changing the flag , change won .

    The second referendum was about the options , this just happened to include the old one! , guess what won?

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