Pope says we should live simpler lives, should we?

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  • Pope Francis condemns world of materialism and poverty

    Pope Francis has called on people in developed countries to live a simpler and less materialistic life.

    He also condemned the huge divide between the world's rich and poor, saying Jesus's birth in poverty in a stable should make everyone reflect on the meaning of life.

    He spoke out while leading a service in St Peter's Basilica in the Vatican for the traditional Christmas Eve Mass.

    He continued: "Let us ask ourselves: Do I really need all these material objects and complicated recipes for living? Can I manage without all these unnecessary extras and live a life of greater simplicity?

    "For many people, life's meaning is found in possessing, in having an excess of material objects. An insatiable greed marks all human history, even today, when, paradoxically, a few dine luxuriantly while all too many go without the daily bread needed to survive."

    I agree with the message, just not the messenger. You can always count on the Catholic church to put a dampener on things.:rolleyes:


    With all the wealth that the Vatican has due to its history of rape and pillage, it's quite ironic that such sermons can come out of such a place. Ever seen a starving priest? No, neither have I.


    People do live very materialistic lives now, but that's because they can. If you went back a hundred years and gave everyone the same amount of wealth that we now enjoy, would those people back then live any different lives to how we live now?


    I don't think its wrong to have possessions and indulge yourself, but constant gluttony is not good. One percent of the world's population has ninety precent of the world's wealth. With some people feasting themselves on Christmas dinners today on their luxury yachts, there are others, millions, starving such in places such as in Yemen, but that doesn't make those on the yachts evil, just very, very lucky.


    Should we all live simpler, less materialistic lives?


    Why doesn't the church practice what it preaches?

  • I honestly don't give a fuck what the chief god botherer has to say while he sits there in his own private safe and luxurious little world of the Vatican, he is just another politician type who doesn't have a clue what its like to live in the real world.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • I honestly don't give a fuck what the chief god botherer has to say while he sits there in his own private safe and luxurious little world of the Vatican, he is just another politician type who doesn't have a clue what its like to live in the real world.

    Obviously, my OP was totally loaded against the Church.


    I have nothing against the message itself, but as my brother went to the Vatican last year and saw first hand how immense and grandiose the whole place is, the message of we shouldn't covet possessions is a little lost on me when the Vatican is stuffed with possessors from civilisations long since destroyed by the Romans.

  • I honestly don't give a fuck what the chief god botherer has to say while he sits there in his own private safe and luxurious little world of the Vatican, he is just another politician type who doesn't have a clue what its like to live in the real world.

    The present pope does not live a luxurious life and never has he practises what he preaches . He doesn’t live in the Papal palace I believe it has been turned into a hospital and occupies two room in the visiters quarters . He has turned another papal palace into a homeless shelter .When he was bishop of Buenos Aires he also did not occupy the Bishops palace residing in a small apartment instead and traveled by public transport .So he most certainly does know how to live in the real world .


    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/w…e-francis-behest-n1123246

  • The present pope does not live a luxurious life and never has he practises what he preaches . He doesn’t live in the Papal palace I believe it has been turned into a hospital and occupies two room in the visiters quarters . He has turned another papal palace into a homeless shelter .When he was bishop of Buenos Aires he also did not occupy the Bishops palace residing in a small apartment instead and traveled by public transport .So he most certainly does know how to live in the real world .


    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/w…e-francis-behest-n1123246

    Interesting Jack. I didn't know anything about him.

  • Obviously, my OP was totally loaded against the Church.


    I have nothing against the message itself, but as my brother went to the Vatican last year and saw first hand how immense and grandiose the whole place is, the message of we shouldn't covet possessions is a little lost on me when the Vatican is stuffed with possessors from civilisations long since destroyed by the Romans.


    Obviously, my OP was totally loaded against the Church.


    I have nothing against the message itself, but as my brother went to the Vatican last year and saw first hand how immense and grandiose the whole place is, the message of we shouldn't covet possessions is a little lost on me when the Vatican is stuffed with possessors from civilisations long since destroyed by the Romans.

    What would you do with them? the Vatican does have wonderful treasures and people go to see them all the time . The Catholic Church uses these funds to support its many charitable enterprises . It is the biggest charitable organisation in the world and supports schools and hospitals throughout the world . If all this stuff was sold it would end up in the private collections of wealthy people never to be seen again by the public . The money once gone would be gone as it is it provides a steady tourist income .

  • It's also the biggest property developer in the world and I doubt all of the profits the Church gleams from its empire goes to charitable means.


    I come from the viewpoint that the Church is not a benevolent organisations, but one that supports power and perverts, even if some individual members are decent.

  • I don’t know anything about property development . The church is selling off lots of its properties as they are too large now due to declining numbers of clergy and churchgoers .

  • It's also the biggest property developer in the world and I doubt all of the profits the Church gleams from its empire goes to charitable means.


    I come from the viewpoint that the Church is not a benevolent organisations, but one that supports power and perverts, even if some individual members are decent.

    The church always ensured that it distanced itself from control by politicians. It's done that since its very foundation so no surprise that it should do so now. If you turned up for history at school and actually paid attention in class, you will remember how Thomas Becket fell out with Henry II over Henry's attempt to abolish Canon Law in England and make priests subject to civil law. He tried to control his former Chancellor - who he made Archbishop of Canterbury in the belief that he would then have the Church in England in his pocket - who is famously alleged to have said "No man can serve two masters". This is equally famously and allegedly have led to Henry replying "Will nobody rid me of this turbulent priest..??"


    It didn't end well for Becket. He was hacked to death by four of Henry's knights who took his outburst literally,


    It didn't end well for Henry either, who, in retaliation, was forced into grovelling to the church and was whipped in the street, made to wear a hair shirt, swear allegiance to the Pope and pray for forgiveness at the altar where Becket was slain


    The point of that little bit of rambling history is that the church, having ensured that its members would always be protected from prosecution by civil authorities, made it a magnet for those who knew the worst that would happen to them was a bollocking from the Pope and transferal to another diocese.


    Canon Law Of The Catholic Church


    Relevant snip:


    Ecclesiastical positive law is the positive law that emanates from the legislative power of the Catholic Church in its effort to govern its members in accordance with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Fernando della Rocca used the term "ecclesiastical-positive law" in contradistinction to civil-positive law, in order to differentiate between the human legislators of church and state, all of which issue "positive law" in the normal sense.


    In UK we live under secular law, although the most senior Bishops of the main churches in UK do have representation in the House of Lords and can speak in the House to take ecclesiastical considerations into account when passing laws. But it is quite clear that secular considerations take primacy. Perhaps Henry II won in the end after all.


    The most recent major clash between Canon and Secular interests occurred over gay marriage between 2004 - 2007 when the Catholic Primate of UK really...... no, like, REALLY tried to block the Civil Partnerships Act. He failed.


    The situation in Ireland was quite different. The Irish Republic was little short of being a monotheist state. The Catholic Church had massive influence over the political situation in Ireland and it was this that not only enabled paedophile priests to flourish, but also the Mother and Baby homes and the Magdalen Laundries to operate under complete church control with little or no regulation or scrutiny from the State to curb their activities. The appalling revelations about what happened there has only come to light in recent times.


    Here in UK we separate Church and State.... which is wise....... but our multicultural society, with its multi-faith tolerance has prevented Britain from falling into the same trap of one belief system becoming so powerful that it can operate with - as good as - impunity.


    We should be wary of attempts to impose a single culture Britain that is completely dominated by one power faction - as is happening now. Once a group, be they priests or politicians, obtain absolute power it attracts the worst kind of people to its flag. And when they know they can operate under the cover of that system's protection, they WILL abuse it.


    Multiculturalism in all its ways and forms is our surest defence against such things happening here.

    Old Boy said: "Britain will have a trade deal with USA by the end of this year".

    Edited 3 times, last by Jennyanydots ().

  • The present pope does not live a luxurious life and never has he practises what he preaches . He doesn’t live in the Papal palace I believe it has been turned into a hospital and occupies two room in the visiters quarters . He has turned another papal palace into a homeless shelter .When he was bishop of Buenos Aires he also did not occupy the Bishops palace residing in a small apartment instead and traveled by public transport .So he most certainly does know how to live in the real world .


    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/w…e-francis-behest-n1123246

    Good for him. 🙄

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Whatever any religion does won't redeem it. Five years ago I sold a 16thC book Foxes Book of Martyrs. I hadn't read all of it but enough to well explain man's inhumanity to man. It's a huge book of some 500-600 pages. This one had lost its boards and a large part of its frontispiece but was otherwise in pretty good shape and with clear print, albeit in Gothic English script and Latin.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxe%27s_Book_of_Martyrs

  • Putting the the Pope and religion to the side I completely agree with the statement that we should all live a more simple life. We should all go back to being farmers and live more a Shaker or Amish, self sufficient lifestyle alongside nature. Maybe even go back further and live more like Anglo Saxons. Of course all the time there is money and greed it will never happen so that will be the self destruction of the human race including the rich greedy ones by which time it will be too late for them to change their ways. The next 50 years are going to be crucial as to whether we survive or not. If you think how far tech has advaced in 50 years, what's it's going to be like in the next 50 and that's before we attack global warming and protect the planets resources. We could end up either in a Mad Max type scenario or Terminator wars. Were at the begging of the end of civilization and the survival of our species right now.

  • You see, this is where we take our wrong turns. ‘We should all lead a simpler life’. Why dictate to others the kind of life they should live?


    A simpler life may appeal to some, but frankly that would bore me rigid. Give me variety and challenge every day and that makes me happy.


    If I wanted simplicity I could have that where I live now. If I wanted simplicity but was easily distracted I could go to somewhere like Shetland or Guernsey.


    What we should do is to give people the opportunity to live a simpler life, not to dictate that everyone should live this way.

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  • It's not dictating your life it's saving your life and others. What point is all that life of richs going to be if you don't have life. We are heading for self destruction because of that way of life. Look around you. Look at the state of the planet and eco system. What do you think is going to happen when there is a chain reaction of events.

  • Put god aside and take a more pragmatic view of it. Strangely enough some of the moral concepts and philosophical views or religion logically make a lot of sense. We all should live more simpler life's what's wrong with that.

  • Did the Catholic priests put God aside while they were molesting children, what do you think the moral concept was behind that?

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Putting the the Pope and religion to the side I completely agree with the statement that we should all live a more simple life. We should all go back to being farmers and live more a Shaker or Amish, self sufficient lifestyle alongside nature. Maybe even go back further and live more like Anglo Saxons. Of course all the time there is money and greed it will never happen so that will be the self destruction of the human race including the rich greedy ones by which time it will be too late for them to change their ways. The next 50 years are going to be crucial as to whether we survive or not. If you think how far tech has advaced in 50 years, what's it's going to be like in the next 50 and that's before we attack global warming and protect the planets resources. We could end up either in a Mad Max type scenario or Terminator wars. Were at the begging of the end of civilization and the survival of our species right now.

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