Pope says we should live simpler lives, should we?

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  • Putting the the Pope and religion to the side I completely agree with the statement that we should all live a more simple life. We should all go back to being farmers and live more a Shaker or Amish, self sufficient lifestyle alongside nature. Maybe even go back further and live more like Anglo Saxons. Of course all the time there is money and greed it will never happen so that will be the self destruction of the human race including the rich greedy ones by which time it will be too late for them to change their ways. The next 50 years are going to be crucial as to whether we survive or not. If you think how far tech has advaced in 50 years, what's it's going to be like in the next 50 and that's before we attack global warming and protect the planets resources. We could end up either in a Mad Max type scenario or Terminator wars. Were at the begging of the end of civilization and the survival of our species right now.

    I agree and I believe most people would like to live a simple self sufficient lifestyle this means land . Owning land .If it were that easy more would do it . But certainly in this country to buy land is well nigh impossible for anyone but the very weathly sector of society .


  • You would need about £3 million to even get a relatively small house in Guernsey it’s full of multi millionaires . Nothing simple there .The Shetlands is very cold and little grows there I suppose you could fish and live in a hovel with no mod cons. To give everyone land you would have to take it form others let’s say one of the biggest landowners the royal family . Would you be in agreement to that ?

  • For now I would be content with an allotment so I could at least stick two fingers up at the supermarkets and grow my own veg so I can eat more healthy food, but as I live in the capital that is just not feasible. They are all disappearing and the few that are left are either to far from home or have a 10 year plus waiting list unless your lucky enough to have one handed down.

    let’s say one of the biggest landowners the royal family

    The queen legally owns all the land even if you have purchased your own home. If they wanted to build a railway that fell on your house and you was stubborn enough to stay they could use that power to legally remove you if it came to that. They may be obliged to re-home you but they could still kick you off because that land under your home is technically owned by the queen. Those woodlands for sale sites advertised. One could possibly reasonably afford, and just about buy some woodland....what's left of the countryside, but you are still not allowed to say...chop down some trees and build a log cabin on that land. You would have to get planning permission and then costs drastically increase and you are charged other fees on top of that plus you can only build to the building regulations. I think there maybe even conditions where you would be forced to get utilities installed at your cost like a water supply and electric etc so you are tied in with utility bills. You would also have to have it legally registered as a postal address which can be done for free with Royal Mail (Note it's also Royal) or for a small admin fee and then of course they can start charging council tax and the rest of it. You could have a caravan for short period of time but not a fixed structure, a fixed abode. We don't live in a free country.

    what do you think the moral concept was behind that?

    Well obviously this is morally disgusting but this is only one side of the coin. Shall we put us all into that category because there are nonces out there living amongst us in all kinds of social positions within society.

  • Why not ?

    Most people in this world do believe in a fictitious being .

    Doesn’t mean that they are wrong on everything .

    No but it could mean their judgment might be slightly flawed. ;):D

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Progress isn't necessarily a bad thing. We have gotten to where we are because we've progressed. In truth, as a species, we've done pretty darned well. A tropical mammal with no particular physical attributes that enable our survival. We can't run particularly fast, we're not big, not especially muscular, we can't climb trees quickly and we have no naturally occurring bodily armour plating. We have no horns or claws and our teeth are not adapted for attack or self defence.


    In natural terms we should be right at the bottom of the food chain. Prey, not predators. Not to put too fine a point on it, frankly, by now, we should be bloody extinct.


    But we're smart. We can figure stuff out. That and an opposable thumb enable us to use tools. In the early stages of our development the use of these tools spread and to cut a long story short, we are now where we are.


    It isn't progress that's screwed the world up because we progressed for the last 15-20'000 years since the ice age started to end. But we did it at a much slower pace. We grasped all the implications of each stage of our development before discovering and moving on to the next thing. Now we're galloping along at an incredible pace and we can hardly keep up with our own progress. Worse still, rather than advance and improve ourselves as a species, we're now making it tribal. We call it "Nationhood".


    The American Tribe....... The Chinese Tribe....... The Russian Tribe. Hell.... even the English Tribe thinks it can make an impression. Plankton in a sea full of Orcas as we will find out.


    And then there are tribes within tribes. The WhatsApp Tribe..... The Twitter Tribe......... The Facebook Tribe...... Or how about the Virgin Media Tribe..... the Sky Tribe..... The BT Tribe..... Every tribe within its own sphere competing against the other.


    All these tribes gather under the sub heading of "Business." Business has become the 21st century God that must be bowed to. And we do bow to it because, like any religion, it makes us promises we like the sound of.


    Unlike God, Business doesn't promise us life after death. That idea's been pretty much discredited. What it offers us instead, is heaven on Earth. Better cars. Bigger houses. Desirable goods and lifestyles. Our years may still be only four score and ten (ish) but why not fill those years with lots of wonderful consumer goods...?? Only Business can do this. Don't aspire to help your fellow human. He isn't your friend, he's your competitor. There are more than enough people in the world now, and it will carry on turning if he dies so don't care about him, just make sure you grab the largest slice of pie for yourself that you can take.


    Not content with competing against other species for survival (we've cracked that), we now want to dominate each other. The concept of a global human race, all pulling together for the common wellbeing is under pressure from tribes interested only in their own supremacy.... their own grab for a larger slice of the pie of dwindling resources.


    Can we as a species survive this..? Don't ask me. I haven't got a clue. Oh, I know HOW it could be done... the theory of it... the actual practical steps that would have to be taken to bring us back from the road to disaster down which we're hurtling. But who listens to me..?


    We know the answers. We know what needs to be done. But how to go about making it happen is the hard bit. We are a constantly evolving species. We survived because we learned how to use tools and share them. But now we share nothing. We sell everything and this has created greed on a level never experienced in the history of our species. Oh, for sure we sold things before - greed has always existed - but buying bought ownership. Then we discovered "Patents"..... "Copyright"........ "Intellectual Property"...... "Licensing"..... and this creates even more greed. You don't "Own" anything any more. You simply purchase the right to use it...... For as long as you pay, that is.


    See my thread on Neoliberalism. There is the evil religious cult that has taken control of the human race now. it's the evil religious cult that lies at the root of the hell we are spiralling down to on this planet. The answer to the downward descent of our species is to put a stop to that cult.


    But how to achieve that..? How to challenge the power of greed....??


    Achieve that and there's hope for us yet.


    Neoliberalism has made us all competitors against our own kind. And the worst thing is - and we haven't figured this out yet - it's a race to the bottom.

    Old Boy said: "Britain will have a trade deal with USA by the end of this year".

  • Fantastic post Jenny and eloquently put.

    You don't "Own" anything any more. You simply purchase the right to use it

    And this is getting worse as software begins to move into the cloud and subscription based. Even with computers like Apple for example we own the hardware but we do not own the operating system which is provided free of charge. This is how they keep control to be able to manipulate. It's the same with an Internet connection you pay for the line but you don't own the line. Even many ISP's don't own the line and they have to piggy back off BT or Virgin. ISP's will provide a free router so you don't own that and they can provide a backdoor in it for them and Authorities to spy on you. Never use an ISP provided router and buy your own and install open source software on it. Business has mugged the human race of humanity which we are slaves too.

  • The pope wants everybody to have a simpler life. Which planet does he live on. Over half the planet lives in poverty and deprivation, you don't get more simple life than that.

    What is needed is for all that wealth and treasure stashed in the Vatican and Churches all over the world to be sold off and the money used to provide the starving millions with food, shelter and drinking water. If the pope did that, he would be seen as an inspired world leader. Will he do that ?--- NO. Greed and avarice for riches and treasure comes first. So nothing will change.

  • I have explained to you why that would not be a good idea .

    It would be a one off action and all those art works would be lost to the general public for ever to be ensconced in private galleries . The poor would continue to be poor because much of their problems are complex .People are poor in very rich countries let us take two Nigeria and Venezuela home of two of the largest oil reserves on the planet . These are rich countries with poor people because of corruption and bad government.

  • It would be a one off action and all those art works would be lost to the general public for ever to be ensconced in private galleries .

    People don't need all those mega-expensive treasures in their places of worship Jack.. Or in the extensive vaults in the Vatican. The treasures could raise huge sums at auction which would go a long way to alleviate the lives of the needy all over the world. Yes they may be in private galleries but they won't be lost.

  • It’s not just a place of worship though is it? It is the centre of the Catholic Church throughout the world and also a repository of great works of art where all can see them . Would you prefer they are on some Russian oligarchs yacht or mansion hidden from all but a few ?

  • How many people get to go into the Secret Vatican storage rooms to view those priceless artefacts Jack ?.

    Anyway I can see that we won't agree on this, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for your opinions.

  • It’s not just a place of worship though is it? It is the centre of the Catholic Church throughout the world and also a repository of great works of art where all can see them . Would you prefer they are on some Russian oligarchs yacht or mansion hidden from all but a few ?

    It's tempting to see the Catholic Church as a repository of great treasures, kept for posterity.... and that in itself is not a bad thing. I do have a great deal of sympathy though for the idea of selling them to make money to help the needy and the poor.


    The down side of that though is that the amount of sums that would be raised, though vast, would still barely touch the surface of global poverty. And then there would be the question of distribution. Who gets what..?


    Would all the money go to only countries with large Catholic populations..? If so, what about India, where the poverty in some parts of the country is truly appalling. In truth, India alone could probably swallow up the entire amount on its own and still want more.


    And that's before you even start on Africa. Then Central and South America.


    But if - for argument sake - the money was distributed only to countries with predominantly Catholic populations, what would that say about Christianity..? Are we all not "God's Children", regardless of whatever faith we subscribe to..?


    And then there is the matter of corruption. It would be naive and foolish to simply give the money to governments to distribute. It would very quickly be siphoned off into dictators bank accounts, or used to buy guns and bullets. So..... how COULD it be distributed in such as way as to guarantee that all of it reached the poor...?


    Now, I don't subscribe to the mantra of "Nothing can be done so do nothing". The Church could certainly do more to alleviate world poverty. But selling off art treasures isn't the way to do it.


    More and better funding, distributed through genuine aid organisations such as The Red Cross..... Medicins Sans Frontiers..... Oxfam.... and others, with a commitment from governments to match any papal donations dollar for dollar. Governments must take responsibility for their people.

    Old Boy said: "Britain will have a trade deal with USA by the end of this year".

  • How many people get to go into the Secret Vatican storage rooms to view those priceless artefacts Jack ?.

    Anyway I can see that we won't agree on this, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for your opinions.


    How many people get to go into the Secret Vatican storage rooms to view those priceless artefacts Jack ?.

    Anyway I can see that we won't agree on this, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for your opinions.

    I don’t know Mike I expect scholars and people who ask permission are allowed to see things . The Vatican library is the biggest collection of historical documents in the world going back for centuries . These are valuable because of their historical value . The treasures of St Peters are on view for all to see .

  • So would dividing up the wealth in countries like the US and UK with the rest of the world and I bet the combined wealth of all the western countries adds up to way more. I agree the church do have too much wealth and secrets stashed away but we need to put things in context. At the end of the day the worlds biggest problem is money and greed. You cant roll money into flour and make bread.Think about that for a moment


    I can't wait until the next Wall Street crash and worlds financial crisis. It will far worse than anything COVID has created. It will be shit that many will lose stuff including lives and life will get tougher to begin with but 'what goes down must come up' great sacrifices need to be made. I'm willing to make sacrifices myself if needs be, back to basics if society allowed that way of life to save all those up and coming, the children. Sometimes we need to reach rock bottom before we can repair ourselves and some people need to be forced into that position so they can awaken and realise what is important in life. Prisoners can have a great life once they learn to live with basics. It could be compared to a Monastic way of life which tries to instil the same ways or as we love the military so much. how about a military life that tries to instil order and live with the bare necessities. The key word there is 'order' because the world is in disorder. All we have to do is realise that goods and appliances mean nothing. Some of us choose the military or prison as a way of life because it offers far more than what general life has in many ways.


    Another option is a world war as that can be just as cleansing, destructiveness with a means to an end to rebuild better and there is a good chance we are heading that way if nature does not get us first. Right now we have the ingredients brewing in the world that Hitler had accept that power and control is the rise of google and other tech giants. Then there are the splinter groups and wars in places and that will grow as governments try to regain control that more often than not punish the people instead of the tech giants. The US are on the verge of a another civil war. We can see it all panning out around us now. Russia back on the rise, our interference in the middle east and divide with the EU. The rise of groups like Woke and BLM to cause a smokescreen and division amongst the people. Geez we even have human genocide if you want to consider China and Muslims over there or Boris / HCock and the old peoples homes. We could even consider COVID as a form of genocide but there's not enough proof of that right now. But for any rise in power it requires to be built on top of a disaster to get away with it like the fire in Germany that helped bring Hitler to the rise.


    We could solve all the worlds problems tomorrow if the powers at be allowed it but they wont allow it as they will no longer sit on their throne in control and ordering everyone else around and prefer to see others suffer and have wars fighting over resources and everything else that helps them retain that power. It's that simple.

  • The church has always been about do as I say not as I do, to the point of hypocrisy. That's why I have no time for religion.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Not always I have been fortunate enough to meet very good people who do good work among the poor . It a shame that all have been tarred with the same brush . I will add that I am not religious but the tenets of most religions are to do good .

  • . I will add that I am not religious but the tenets of most religions are to do good .

    I agree with above Jack.......... But it doesn't address the issue of using the Vast Fortune accrued over the centuries and secreted in the Vatican, from being sold off and the proceeds being distributed among the poor and needy of this world. We are all god's children and the needs of the starving millions should be held more important than treasure in the hands of religious leaders.

  • Well Mike you write and tell them to sell it off because I have explained why it is better not too .

    Even Jesus said that the poor are always with us .

    You don’t really think if those treasure were sold off it would solve the poor and needy of the world do you ?

    How much aid Is syphoned off to support dictators ?

    How much aid food Iis actually sold ?

    Nope best it stays where it is and generates income to help the poor and needy .

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