Posts by Grandpa

    Grandpa , may I tempt you to try other threads other than this one and the immigration one?

    Not everything is all about life and death and we have quite a few light-hearted topics here too. How about a nice argument debate about the BBC instead? ;) The Great Debate about the BBC and Licence Fee Or for a genuinely light thread, how about our jokes thread: Jokes & Silly Thread?


    I just created a thread about the Taliban, why not give your views there too: Should world leaders start talking to the Taliban?? Not a single Russian in sight there. :)


    And just a reminder to ALL, as per the site rules, no one needs to prove anything here.

    Horizon, I’ve been banging my head against a brick wall ever since I came here.

    It’s a forum, part of which is political, yes you do need to prove what you say, that’s the point of a forum, otherwise it’s a community chat space and that’s what it is.

    1. When people wonder why immigration hasn’t been stopped and I put up a vid of Boris saying he’s in favour of immigration, I didn’t say that, Boris did.

    2. When people tell me that the government handled covid well, are people annoyed I pointed out both Boris and Hancock have now apologized for the mess they made of it?

    3. In the recent Ukraine offensive that just about everyone outside the west knew would fail and Zelensky and the western politicians are now blaming each other for, am I a Putinist for saying that? Wasn’t it obvious? No one outside the mainstream media took it seriously. "Putin is a monster." Is that it? Is that the level of knowledge here?

    4. Didn’t you already know that sanctioning our energy supply would lead to soaring inflation and the cost of living? You’re probably the only ones in the country who didn’t. The majority ones here still think it’s the fault of covid, the Labour Party, or the Unions.

    It’s weird Horizon, the majority of you are living in a world of your own. How can you have a forum where someone can come along and say, ‘it’s August and we’ve had big snow blizzards in Coventry today’ and the response would be silence, or a shrug of the shoulders?

    With a mentality like that any other thread would be the same. I already tried a different thread on immigration and put up a vid of Boris the EU remainer saying he was in favour of immigration and so it’s not surprising he did nothing to stop it. The response? Zero. It wasn’t what people wanted to hear so it can’t be true even though Boris was admitting it. How weird is that?!

    Between you and I Horizon, if you’re wondering why you can’t get increased members I’ve just explained it. What you’ve gathered here, with the odd exception, is a small group of conservative Mr. Angry’s from Surrey including a couple of Victor Meldrew’s. Add to that a very low perception of reality and a reliance on opinions from the mainstream media and this is as far as it’s going to get. You’ve let it slide into a minority niche of indoctrinated Tories Horizon and you’re now paying for it with near static activity.

    I have a feeling you’ll eventually pack this in because I wouldn’t continue paying the costs of running a forum like this either. It’s not for me, I’m not a fan of one liner repeats of mainstream news. I’ve lived in some dodge pot places in the world Horizon, but I’ve seldom heard as much complete nonsense as I have here. OK, we differ, but it’s not for me, but thanks anyway for having me here, short as it was. Good luck with it. :)


    Have a look at other forums and see the difference. Look at the debates going on, look at the different view points being argued … There’s nothing here, there’s no thought involved, it’s a repeat of mainstream media news. I can read the two main political party websites and have my head filled with the same nonsense based on beliefs.

    As none of you can, or are prepared to debate, it’s just a series of poster attacks and rarely has anything to do with the topic itself. I think I’ll give you few a miss and go elsewhere and/or stick to my usual haunts where I can get a plurality of views. Now carry on repeating yourselves amongst yourselves. :)

    Your whole interpretation of ‘what we think’ is completely muddled. I’m beginning to think you’re on something. Maybe you should stick to what YOU think rather than what WE think as you seem completely unable to read the room.

    Contrary to what you say, we don’t believe everything printed in the media, we don’t agree with everything going on around us and the views expressed on here by reference to certain known facts such as what we think of Putin are based on what is or has actually happened.

    We are happy to discuss with you, Grandpa, but all you ever seem to do is take one or two comments and try to ridicule them. You don’t actually address them head on, so don’t kid us you actually want a discussion.

    What you are putting forward is indoctrination. And we’re not buying it.

    If I stuck to not just what I think but explanations and evidence, I’d be talking to myself here. That’s not the point of a forum and if there’s no dissent it’s not really a forum.

    It’s not just the Ukraine. I went on the immigration thread and read the ‘this is what we need to do about immigration, blah, blah,blah.’ I put up a short video where Boris himself tells you he’s pro immigration whilst Mayor of London and years later you’re still wondering why nothing happened? Is that Putin indoctrination? Not one reply because it’s not what people wanted to hear. Aren’t you against ethnic cleansing, because that’s what it would now entail.

    Similary, Boris has now apologized for “being present” at the parties he intially said were work events and you said I was talking nonsense. Everybody but you few here knew Boris was lying, it’s what he does. Is that Putin indoctrination? It’s not just Boris, anything which goes against your beliefs even if they’re true are ignored, hence the echo chamber.

    You few are on another planet, you’re unable to debate and the opinions and beliefs you come out with are often just plain bizare. Anything you don’t believe is Putin indoctrination, or the fault of Labour, or the Unions, or ‘commies.’ I’ve said it before, a group of Victor Meldrew’s!

    I’m not on anything, I’m active on other sites as and when but it’s why you can’t get members OB, no one will stay for long and waste their time listening to Rule Britannia fantasies except other Daily Mail readers.

    Grandpa, you are on repeat. Just because you keep on saying it doesn't make it true.

    And incidentally, even when you do pick on a fact, you interpret it incorrectly.

    You may prefer to get your steer from the censored Russian media rather than the free western press. We get that. Most of us observe what is going on from both sides, and from that we have learned that Putin is an absolute liar and you cannot believe a word he says. He promised us all he would not invade Ukraine just days before he did so, and he's been lying ever since.

    We all know that Boris Johnson told a few porkies but Putin is in a league of his own.

    You don't have to keep repeating yourself, we get it. But make no mistake, you are the one who is being misled, hook, line and sinker. But don't expect us to be fooled. We aren't, and we won't.

    No, you don't get it OB. You're lost in the belief world of the mainstream media.

    Didn’t you do debating at school? Basic for and against, with homework to present facts and argue them in front of an audience? You know, the days before politicians told you they were in touch with aliens from another planet, or multiculturalism was good for Britain and everyone did the nodding dog head stuff.

    Tell me you know what a debate is.

    Okay, we’ll do it your way.

    There are no illegal immigrants coming across the channel in boats.

    Yes there are, loads of them.

    No there aren’t, they’re ethnic Africans from Bradford on a fishing trip.

    They’re illegal immigrants and the government are trying to stop them coming in from France.

    No they’re not, it’s why the government haven’t stopped them and you’re getting your news from the Chinese which means your evil and you’re just racist because they’re black fishermen.

    Is that how it goes? Stick your tongue out and pretend what I've said is propaganda as an excuse not to debate. Good heaven’s, no wonder you can’t increase the membership here if that’s the level it’s at. Being an echo chamber is a serious problem for any forum. A whole forum (with the odd exception) of about half a dozen active fanatical conservative cheerleaders and all you can do is shout the soundbites of “Putin is a monster” and “Russia invaded the Ukraine,” which you didn’t even think of yourselves but got from the mainstream media. That’s knowledge?

    It took a while to realize and I have tried, but I’m wasting my time here aren’t I? Come on be honest. I’ve said this before, but when I came back to Britain in 2019 I was shocked at the changes and my initial reaction was, “what have they done to you?” A clown called Boris was PM, the streets looked like the league of nations, police cars with gay pride stickers whizzed past and later I was forced to join the two meter covid shuffle and currently we’re at near war with Russia and I’m supposed to cheer for that! And you think I’m mad?! :)

    what part of I'm not getting dragged into a circular argument didn't you get?

    The part where you say everything is a belief so it’s no good going around in circles.

    Th conflict is not a belief and so the facts can be debated.

    Don’t even try Rustyoldgoat, stick to beliefs. :)

    It would be nice if someone were to take what I’ve said and try to argue against it. It’s not going to happen though, is it. It’s not even as if anyone is presenting a few paragraphs of a media version of events in their own words, there’s just nothing. Putin is a monster, Putin is evil, Putin is a ***. Is that it? Is that the Forum Box level of debate? It took me the time to drink a cup of tea to write that post #3,211 off the top of my head, but I’m starting to realize I’m wasting my time.

    The Ukraine is arguably the biggest event that’s happened in Europe since the Second World War and people can’t write more than a sentence about it? It’s simply a lack of knowledge but no one will admit it. It’s difficult to write about something you know nothing about except to repeat sound bites and that’s what’s happening here. It reflects badly on a forum where debate should be a priority.

    This is something that should have been stopped years ago. It’s too late now, how are you going to remove millions of people? It’s not going to happen. Let Boris himself tell you why he did nothing about immigration in his own words, 33 seconds into this short video.

    Who is the real Boris Johnson?
    Boris Johnson is likely to become Britain's next prime minister. In today's ugly politics he would be a dangerous leader.Read more here: https://econ.st/2JnZ...
    www.youtube.com

    Prove it or show me some evidence is part of a debate.

    Is there a God or isn’t there is a belief. You can’t prove there is and no one can prove there isn’t.

    What’s going on in the Ukraine is not a belief, it’s factual and a reality.

    “I think Putin's a ****” (my bold) means you can’t debate and don’t have an argument.

    Everything we’re seeing now could have been so easily prevented. You were silent as NATO and the EU expanded East. You didn’t complain when the US did a regime change in the Ukraine in 2014. You said nothing when the Nazi militia’s started to ethnically cleanse the Russians in the Crimea and Donbass and you shrugged your shoulders as NATO funded those militias.

    You didn’t know that the Russian’s already moved into the Crimea in 2014 (little green men) to stop the slaughter of ethnic Russians, followed a few months later by moving into the Donbass to prevent it happening there as the Ukraine army and militias moved into that region. Following the two broken Minsk agreements which Zelensky, Merkel and Macron now admit they had no intention of honouring and as NATO started to get heavily involved, Russia intervened fully in 2022. And you thought 2022 was the start of it? The Russians had been fighting in the Ukraine for years stopping the Ukrainians from attacking the etnic Russian speakers. Perhaps this is to much reality for you in one post, or it’s more than the usual one liner about monsters?

    Or perhaps you really didn’t know and were too interested in the media stories promoting the homosexual agenda, or an alcoholic EU Commissioner filling soft heads with mush for 27 seconds.

    Did Juncker speak with aliens leaders of other planets ?
    Jean Claude Juncker told he saw and spoke to leaders of other planets . European Parliament in Brussels
    www.youtube.com

    And you didn’t even know what Boris was before you voted for him? Let Boris himself explain to you why he did nothing about immigration at 33 seconds into this short video.

    Who is the real Boris Johnson?
    Boris Johnson is likely to become Britain's next prime minister. In today's ugly politics he would be a dangerous leader.Read more here: https://econ.st/2JnZ...
    www.youtube.com

    And you’re trying to tell me you’re even aware of what planet you’re on with your monsters and cheering for Nazis posing as freedom fighers? This is all basic knowledge and when I said previously that your average school age child knows more about what is happening than a few of you here, I wasn’t joking.

    You’re jumping up and down now pretending to be outraged just as the media say you should, but were you outraged over the trumped up claims of WMD’s and the invasion of Iraq? Were you outraged about the ‘shock and awe’ bombing of Baghdad which left thousands dead in one night alone? Did you have the same outrage about the war crimes commited in the Bagram detention center in Afghanistan, or Abu Ghraib in Iraq by NATO force members? Do you even know about the secretive CIA run ‘Black Site’ torture facility run by Gina Haspel in Thailand?

    What a bunch of hypocrites! I’m not the one who supports monsters and evil, you few are the ones who turned a blind eye to what western governments were doing for years across the world, you’re the ones who ignored the ethnic cleansing of Russians and the funding of Nazi militias, but now the slaughter and chaos has come to the European doorstep your wingeing and whining. Now carry on with your monsters, drones attacking a bridge, or whatever the media are currently telling you to cheer for.

    Anyway back to the war....:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66484640

    That bridge is still standing, but it won't be long now.

    Of course it's still standing, it was only slightly damaged last time. It's a magnet for the Ukraine as it makes news and distracts from the beating they've just had in their recent failed counter offensive. Hundreds of thousands dead, the country wrecked, but they damaged a bridge. Big deal?

    ^^ ^^ ^^ Fair enough, he is "elected".

    By the way, Russian state tv has already announced the result of the next election... Such amazing clairvoyant skills they have.

    Of course he was elected by voting, he didn’t just make himself a leader which he would have done had he been a dictator. Just as an aside Horizon, you do know that Russia is no longer a communist dictatorship, don’t you?

    No, I didn’t know Russian state TV had already announced the next winner of an election, but given Putin’s popularity I wouldn’t be surprised. I’ll give you Britain’s next election result if you like after the musical chair conservative PM's they've had – Labour. The US? After dementia ridden Biden, Republican and the EU? Whoever the elites decide as the population don’t get a vote.

    Give me some facts.

    Tell me they’ve found the mass grave of 9,000 civilians the Ukrainians say exist, but no one can find.

    Tell me the ‘Angel of Kiev’ shooting down dozens of modern Russian jets in his old Soviet Mig-29 is true.

    Tell me the much hyped Ukrainian counter offensive has pushed back the Russian forces to the 1991 border.

    Tell me Putin is dying of cancer, the Russian economy is collapsing and Russia is losing the war.

    At home

    Tell me the conservatives are going to stop mass illegal immigration.

    Tell me Rishi isn’t under investigation for corruption.

    Tell me what Rishi has done to fix the economy, the one he said needed fixing after the resignation of Boris, but not that it needed fixing while he was responsible for it as Chancellor under Boris.

    Tell me about this mythical green energy we’ve found that is going to replace our reliance on the previous Russian fossil fuel energy we’ve sanctioned.

    Is that the usual silence I can hear? More sound bites? More tongues sticking out?

    You didn’t know that if the whole of NATO wouldn’t take on Russia, the Ukraine had no chance?

    You didn’t know that remainer cosmopolitan liberal Boris wouldn’t deliver on the Brexit promises?

    You didn’t know that sanctioning our energy supply would cause energy prices to skyrocket and lead to a soaring cost of living crisis?

    You didn’t know that covid lockdowns would massively damge our economy?

    All that is something the average 16 year old at school would know! :rolleyes:

    That's a pretty weak argument. It might be strong enough to qualify you to be on Donald Trump's defense team, but that's about all.

    if you want to write everything off as mere opinion there would need to be an established benchmark for determining what an "evil bastard" is, but even that could be argued as a subjective argument.

    You're doing the very thing you're slagging others off for!!

    (Personally... I think that's all a front for simply trolling - but that's just my "opinion")

    An opinion is simply a belief if it isn’t backed up by fact. It’s a simple as that. Yes, you would need proof before you were to call someone an “evil bastard.” There would have to be something they’ve done which we could all broadly agree on. Simply saying it isn’t enough. That’s where you few go wrong, you can’t prove what you say, you can’t even explain it, you just keep repeating it.

    That’s why I’m careful not to say things I can’t back up. I could say “Boris was corrupt” and your reaction would be what? You’d immediately and quite rightly say prove it, give us some evidence. Failing to do that I could just keep on repeating what I said, which is what you few do.

    You might disagree with what I say, but that’s simply your opinion and you’re entitled to do that, but what you can’t do is prove what you keep saying. I don’t do that and so your comment of “You're doing the very thing you're slagging others off for!!” isn’t true. Neither is trolling. If I upset you with some facts, that’s your problem, not mine. I’m not an echo chamber. If you don’t like what I say, don’t read it. :)  

    A little post on debating dredged up from memory.

    There are facts and there are opinions based on beliefs. You can’t use opinions to disprove facts and facts are ignored by those with entrenched beliefs. Debate is about using facts to prove a point, not a constant repetition of opinions presented as facts. The media is now largely based on beliefs and so for example when you hear “Putin is monster” or “the Ukraine is winning” they’re simply someone else’s beliefs and not necessarily based on fact.

    Let’s take ‘Putin is evil and a monster.’ That’s a favourite here but it’s simply an opinion from the media and you now have to turn it into fact.

    Why is he evil and a monster?

    Because he invaded the Ukraine.

    Does that mean every leader who invades a country for whatever reason is evil and a monster, or only Putin?

    This is where your belief based on bias is exposed, or you are forced to admit that there’s a whole bunch of western leaders who are also evil and monsters. As no one likes to admit their beliefs are wrong, it’s where the sticking out of tongues starts, or there’s a silence. In other words, you can’t debate using beliefs and opinions. That’s not a debate, it’s a series of repeated soundbites.

    If you’re information comes from an already biased source it’s going to be very difficult to turn into fact. It’s why the media doesn’t and you few struggle to try.

    You can clearly see this with the EU, which over time has convinced a younger generation that their brand of values under elite led liberal fascism is actually democracy and anyone who disgrees is anti-democratic. When explanations are given, the opinions and beliefs are dispelled, but hundreds of millions continue to believe, althought the initial enthusiasm is wearing thin as reality (facts) behind the indoctrinated social engineered project begins to dawn. Under five minutes and recommended watching for media believers.

    The European Union - the New Soviet Union?
    Vladimir Bukovsky spent many years in Russian labour camps and psychiatric prisons for defending human rights. He came to Britain in 1976. He lectures and wr...
    www.youtube.com

    I experienced the same thing when in North Korea, although obviously much more pronounced. I was told in no uncertain terms that although I was educated and from the west, I was so dumb that I didn’t even know Kim Jong-il was a desendent from the Sun God! It was based on the same blind beliefs we see here; that the Labour Party, the Unions or Putin are responsible for all our ills and not the government who run the country, or that the conservatives will stop illegal immigrants.

    So, unless you can add facts to opinions and beliefs, they remain as worthless as those of the Flat Earth Society, or David Icke’s shape shifting reptiles. There’s a small army of people as we speak who are paid to write the stuff from prepared scripts that you’ve convinced yourselves are facts. It’s why many comments sound as though they came from the same source, it’s because they have and why the few believers here can’t debate. :)

    Yes Russia with its use of lawless mercenaries, rape, targeting civilian areas and infrastructure is very much a terrorist state.

    And feel free to ignore me, I'll objectively keep dismantling your pro Putin propaganda and obscene calls for genocide as in post 3170 for what they are: evil.

    Steve, you don’t know enough to debate anyone outside the main stream media. It took you several posts to understand that two men had been sentenced to jail for their opinions and even then you couldn’t acknowledge you were wrong and it actually happened.

    You’re a waste of time mate, two a penny in an indoctrinated world of your own. Don’t take it to heart but honestly, at your level of political knowledge you’re not worth bothering with. Let’s leave it at that and perhaps someone else wants to do the Putin echo chamber thing with you? :rolleyes:

    There is no perfect political system you either have rigged voting systems. Voting systems where your manipulated to vote one way or another by media and social engineering techniques or you can have a gun held to your head or threats of other nasties occurring if you don't vote one way. This is Putins technique. If you don't vote for him and he finds out then there's a good chance you will end up poisoned of pushed off a balcony. Coercion or who has the most money would be a better word than democracy. It just so happens that we and Russia have different methods of coercion.

    I guess one good thing we have is the option to abstain and not vote at all. We are not forced into voting which in turn comes with it's own problems and makes a mockery out of what we call democracy. If the whole of the UK where forced to vote there is a high chance the conservatives would no longer be in power, so make things so shit that folk give up on voting apart from the old fuddy duddies who mostly vote conservative. Of course there are problems there also as Labour or Lib Dems etc are not that far different from the Conservatives so what choice do we have.

    I agree there’s no perfect system and as Stalin once said along the lines of ‘I get to count the votes.’

    I think you’re being a bit harsh on Putin there. Certainly, in the Soviet era it’s true to say you didn’t have a choice of alternative parties, but only who could represent you. Same as the EU now. A list of the political parties in Russia. Scroll down. They’re not dead, in prison, or poisoned.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Russiahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Russia

    Come on Nora, if Putin was a dictator would he even allow this many opposition parties? In his day Churchill was extremely popular, so was Trump until people found out what he was, also applicable to Boris. In Britain we’re so used to scumbags we can’t believe anyone would be and remain popular.

    Putin delivers and keeps the west and its liberal fascism at bay. Re-opens the Churches, bans the promotion of the homosexual agenda, stops transgender operations, promotes patriotism, embraces capitalism, standard rate tax 13% … No one is saying he’s perfect and he’s probably as corrupt as our lot, but he’s extremely popular because many remember communism, plus the bad years of the 1990’s when Yeltsin let in the US to plunder Russia. Nora, outside the west hardly anyone wants to touch our “values” with a bargepole!

    At the end of the day Nora, people don’t give a toss about freedom. We judge our society on whether we have access to health care, a pension in our old age, financial security, protection from the crazies … Not abstracts and ideologies.

    Of course we should jail those that canvass for support to terrorist activities. You should support such too.

    Russia is a terrorist state? If we include others who have invaded or bombed others, should that include us too?

    I think that's enough nonsense from you, I'll put you on my ''ignore this one list.' :)

    So not only do you resort yet again to the bankruptcy of whataboutery, you can't even get your facts right.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/factch…e-idUSL1N2RV0K6

    Watch Gore trying to blame someone else and wriggle out of it. It wasn't me, it was someone else said it, but he wasn't shy of accepting a Nobel Peace Prize for getting it wrong. :)

    You're really not worth bothering with Steve.

    Al Gore Warns Polar Ice May Be Gone in Five Years
    Complete video at: http://fora.tv/2009/12/14/COP15_Gore_and_Store_Report_on_Arctics_Melting_IceFormer Vice President Al Gore references computer modeling to ...
    www.youtube.com

    Well, I didn't actually. Saying it doesn't make it true.

    I was against lockdowns, and I am a climate sceptic. Pray tell me how you conclude from that that I am a blind follower of what the government or media are telling me.

    As for Russia, what is happening there is plain for all to see and your spin on events is frankly unfathomable.

    OB. If the conservative party stood on a podium and told people to march past and cheer them, you’d be the first in the queue.

    You can hardly find anyone now who admits they were fooled by the deadly plague sent to wipe out humanity and Boris’ near tearful pleas. Who me? Oh no, I never believed the covid scam, it was everybody else .. Isn’t that the standard reply?

    Same with the immigration promises …

    Same with Boris’ parties …

    same with the Ukraine winning …

    When it all goes wrong there’s a collective memory loss, or a deafening silence. Time and again you few get proved wrong. Putin has got cancer, Russia’s economy is collapsing, we’re sending the illegals to Rwanda, Rishi’ll fix it,

    Drug gangs, knife crimes, unopposed illegal immigration, a drug epedemic, crime waves, broken Brexit promises, corrupt politicians … The police ride around in cars with gay pride stickers worrying someone might get offended, , our prisons are bursting at the seams, ‘hate crime’ laws to limit free speech … Is this what you voted for? Is this conservatism?

    Don’t worry Grandpa, Rishi will fix it. No he won’t, he’s currently under investigation himself for corruption. There’s a silence followed by “You’re a Putinist.”

    You handful here aren’t conservatives, you’re the by-product of a quarter century of EU indoctrination. If the media told you the illegal immigrants were Russian spies, you’d believe it. You will do what you’re told and eventually walk into fascism and you won’t even know what it is.

    Putin is certainly no saint, but he’s a conservative and that’s something our politicians gave up years ago.

    Western sanctions destroyed the Russian economy. Ukraine is driving the Russian army back towards the 1991 border. Pro NATO protests are erupting across Russia. Putin has a) cancer or b) is about to be disposed. Russia is collapsing like the old USSR and is ready for looting and the US will decide which country gets what part of Russia.

    It’s so much on its last legs it’s sending a major space mission to the moon in the middle of a war with NATO and under the worst sanctions the west can throw at it.

    You few are on another planet. :)


    So you don't deny that Putin is a dictator, thanks for clearing that up.

    As for your irrelevant whataboutery that may or may not be true just shove it

    I deny Putin is a dictator, you’re the one saying he is. I gave you the definition of a dictator and Putin doesn’t fit that. Whether you think he is, or elections are rigged, or he’s a monster is just your opinion with no factual evidence to back it up. If you look at the US, Trump is a dictator to one half of America and Biden is a dictator to the other half. Neither are dictators, it’s just an indoctrinated opinion and worth nothing.

    Just read the article, the major parts of the sentence was for assaulting a journalist and carrying an illegal weapon

    I wasn’t discussing the length of the sentence. Part of the sentence was for supporting Russia. Two men in a supposedly democratic and free Europe were jailed for expressing an opinion that went against that of the EU elites. Do you think that could never happen here?