Best not to keep giving the lectures on history etc. It is patently obvious Iran is in conflict with the USA and Britain. It is right that we are on our guard and also right for Iran. I do not have a one sided, narrow view on such things. I totally respect that any sovereign state has the right to defend itself. I am Irish after-all.
It is not relevant who is hated or liked the issue is that a threat must be kept at bay or when it comes to a battle may the best side win.
I dont think anyone was bothered whether Hitler was a Painter or Bricklayer or Doctor or General, the point is he was a serious threat and must be expunged from the planet. Thats it.
The USA nuked Japan and almost flattened Vietnam but today their is peace and goodwill. These countries work together.
General Necro was planning to murder a large number of Americans.... he was rightly wiped out and good riddance to him. However, as you know, I have my own thoughts on this. 99.9% of people will not agree but I never seek approval for my views I have a highly tuned in feeling of the gut. My intuition is rarely wrong, if ever.
Jennyanydots Iranians know very well that the normal people are not our enemies.
But keeping US and UK out of Iraq and Syria is a iranian imperative. We dont accept them in our sphere of influence.
He was directly responsible for most of our troops gets killed in Afghanistan and Iraq through Iranian made IEDs. Good riddance to him.
Your troops were illegal in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are enemies there.
Beside that, he was not responsible. His office organized the local resistance against occupation. It will continue with or without him.
I guess even you deep down realize your troops are hated in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are enemies of the local people.
"revenge" as you put it, is NOT one way traffic. As long as we know thats fine. I prefer peace and harmony but if there is a choice between my survival depending upon using military might against the "enemy" or threat then thats fine. I want to win. Know your enemy and protect your people and land... That is the number one rule... objective for all democratic governments.
Its also objective for Irans government.
There is a basic priciple. Iran by far is so dominant over all the entire region, it will always be the hegemon. You can push some saudi goat herders with all money. They still fail to counter Iranian hegemony. Its that way since the founding of the iranian empire 2600 years ago.
The most easy way is to accept that and let things run its natural course. Thats the reason why the Shah run Iran was so comfortable for US and UK.
When you lost control over Iran you also lost control over the gravitational center of the entire region. You have to artificial pump up frail regimes like Saudi Arabia or Saddam Hussein in an attempt to build up additional power centers. But its impossible because Iraq, Saudi Arabia and so on are just goat herders, tribals ect that get pimped up with money. You try to pump the river upstream. While you have to use gargantuan efforts to keep some stability, for Iran its easy. With little effort we took control over Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.
The sooner you accept that reality, the better for yourself.
What is wrong with celebrating the death of a man who is trying to kill you first?
Muslims danced with joy at the Twin Towers 9/11 attack. This is expected. The point is, its not the mentioning of facts.. Who is - what is - why is... Its the accepting the differences and knowing Iran hates the USA. There is nothing wrong with accepting this state of affairs. The danger comes when you ignore it.
It is perfectly healthy to fully accept North Korea despises the USA and makes regular threats. A great leader, Trump, will acknowledge this and be ready for any form of action... Just as Iran used to do against Saddham.
But, most sensible people want peace but the Eleohant in the room is that one thing YOU keep denying...... RADICAL ISLAM!!!!! We people in the Western World do not and will not tolerate radical Islam diluting our culture. Its that simple. I would prefer the Muslims behave like tge Sikhs.... JUST GET ON WITH YOUR LIVES AND SEEK PEACE.
In Iran nobody danced in the streets when the twin towers felt. There were mass mournings, candle virgils and minutes of silence ordered.
Iran is not Saudi Arabia. Iran even told USA we would fully support them at their fight against wahabi terror.
Again, this has nothing to do with Islam.
There is no indoctrination in the teaching that the US installed a fascist government to drain our resources of Iran for the benefit of the US. There is no indoctrination in the teaching the US, when they lost their puppet regime, aided Saddam Hussein where and when they could with a WMD war against our country.
There is only propaganda from the US to sweet talk around what they did.... for money. Do take into account it took the US 60 years to admit they installed the shah. Before that, it was 60 years full of lies. Now it's just fake news with half truths.
There wont be peace until anglo saxon imperialism is destroyed. We already destroyed UK imperialism.
Iran fiercly fights british american interests in the world. That has nothing to do with Islam. Evry iranian government will always push against rotten british american charades in the region.
Iranian oil and gas is only sold to China, India ect. You will never get it. And we also took away your acess to Syria and Iraq. And we will also push you out of Saudi Arabia and Emirates. The attack on the biggets saudi oil plant took 1/3rd of their oil away from anglo saxon claws.
You know in the 1920th and 30th even up into the 50th, Iran saw USA as a role model. The UK was always seen as disgusting here, but the USA was something Iranians found very positive. Then USA betrayed Iran with the 1953 coup. And that will never be forgotten and never be forgiven.
Revenge is something deeply imprinted in Zoroastrism. Each act done against us must be avanged.
USA shot down our A300. Few days later their PanAm exploded over Lockerbie. Gaddafi was blamed, but Arafat said Iran did it.
UK takes our ship, we take theirs.
The 1953 coup is not avanged yet. It will be avanged when all US interests in the region collapse.
Good. He has that right not to care and so does everybody else most of all his enemies and when you know of such a killer it is simple logic and the right thing to do to kill him first especially when you know he has plans to kill people.
Dont worry, I get it when Muslims never admit to the truth about the bad side of Islam. You would defend Muslim Imams if they were caught in the same criminal acts committed by Catholic priests... raping young boys. I would be happy if they hanged all the rapist priests - I am a Catholic - I dont think Muslims would commit to same.
Im atheist with tendency to zoroastrism.
As for the general, he was popular in all political factions in iran, the mourning was overwhelming even for the government.
The only one who celrbrate his death is USA, UK, zionist Regime and ISIS. I think that shows very well, where the frontline is.
I am not fixed in my mind with idolisation for any individual (except Muhammad Ali and The Beatles) politicians and people in power play a game, they all play the game.
Its a simple fact the General murdered people so as a clever man he would know their will be retaliation ... you live by the sword - you die by the sword.
We got rid of Blair, Iranian people can NOT get rid of the control by Islam. Thats a fact. If the Archbishop of Canterbury tried to dictate defence policy and how females dress we would tell him to bollox and you would not hear from him for many years.
Evry general kills people. Thats his job. Beside that, he knew he would be killed some day. He didnt care.
Beside that, we are not controlled by islam. Our military acts by prussian standards, not islam. Our defense policy has nothing to do with islam.
Then OK... so just accept the Dead General got what he deserved, I do. I accept the regime he led and the terrorism he instigated, against Americans and British , was fair game and he was "taken out" by a great leader - Donald Trump. Obumma would have sent the General a medal and an invite to the White-House.
In life there are times we just accept e have enemies and people who wish to harm others... its not rocket science. Kill or be killed.... the General lost, he is kaput and 170 people were murdered on a civil passenger plane.
The general was a single person. Replaceable like evry person.
Iran hates UK and US for a single reason. The 1953 coup. The tyrannical regime that the UK and USA installed and the theft of our income.
Its the core goal of Iran to cull back US and UK influence not just in Iran but the entire middle east and Iran is incredible sucessful regarding that.
And that core interest is in all political factions of Iran. The religious ones, the nationalists, the communists. All are united in their didain against anglo saxon imperialism.
We see how the UK and US influence in the entire region collapse and we play that game very well.
We use China and Russia against UK and USA. We crushed a coup in Syria and held Assad in power. The west lost on all fronts there. Iraq has become a iranian province.
And thats what matters. Iran build up a system that makes western influence in the region impossible. A british or US american cant walk in Syria or Iraq. Its impossible for them there to take the rescources. Iran build up a immune system that actively acts against ango saxon interests.
The UK used its embassy in Tehran as spy den in the 1953 coup.
You learned your lesson, your coward ambassador did run away from Iran last week.
Its ironic, you believed in 1953 with the coup you could defend your interests in the region, but it came back like a boomerang and now is the reason why your influence collapses.
A regme change wont help you. When the nationalists rule Iran women wont wear veils but your folks will still be hunted through the streets.
Not while the mad mullahs are in charge. The Shah was bought down by the people, maybe the winds of change?
Out of interest, what should this change look like that UK would be happy?
Back to the corrupt muppet regime we had?
Or should we become a nation like your beloved Saudi Arabia?
How would you stand towards an Iran that is 100% democratic, nationalistic and fiercly anti western powers in the region?
The base is power politics. You wont get a submissive Iran, so i dont see what you want.
we live in 21st century. Why do you celebrate such a laughable thing as minarchy? How much does this theatre cost?
Not while the mad mullahs are in charge. The Shah was bought down by the people, maybe the winds of change?
The Shah too shot protestors. He was no different to the Mullahs. Only difference is, that now our oil stays in Iran.
Been a busy 24 hours for Iran and as already linked to, our ambassador got arrested too.
The protests are now into their second day with even some protesters saying death to the supreme leader and applauding America. Blimey!
Are we on the cusp of another evolution in Iran, or will this peter out in the end?
Few hundred demonstrators in a nation of 80 million.
You dont umderstand one thing. The west makes always the same mistake and believes some rich college kids in Tehran demonstrating show something or mean something.
As long the village people, farmers, low income people support the government, it will always stay. Its the group that toppled the Shah and its the group that holds this government in power.
You know a lot about Iran so tell me the answer to this question please.....
Who is in charge, elected people or Islamic Imams or heads or groups?
Its a complex balance between various groups.
When you go to the core, Iran is ruled by some super rich elite families.
People elect politicians but those you can elect are selected by religious leaders. But they are controlled by rich families.
The popularity of the General in Iran was mostly because he was outside this circle of power and money, which also made him a problem for said circle.
I know the supreme leader in the west is portrait as some religious figurehead, but he s extremly "pragmatic". One time he is hardliner when it favors him, next time he is reformist, when it favors him.
Remember our former hardliner president Ahmadinejad? He felt out of favor and is under much pressure now, since our supreme leader over night turned 180°.
Its a snakepit and the supreme leader games with them to stay in power. As long they are internal rivals they dont oppose him.
USA .. number one economy on Earth. Landed on the Moon - Google - Amazon - Microsoft - YouTube - true freedom of speech - right to own a gun - religion NOT permitted to influence political decisions -
and ,much, much more. A great country to trade with.
Germany landed on the moon, with americans as passengers.
Religion not permitted to influence political decissions? You do know the evangelical nutjobs rule the GOP?
Google, Amazon, Microsoft are good for you? Its Stasi 2.0 and people actually pay for that shit.
The UK happens to be the sixth largest economy in the world. So not really incredibly small....
Im sure USA, China and EU will be very respectful with UK...
How did China Xi Jinping label UK? A small open air museum?
Tell me what negotiation power the UK can wield against Trump who is MAGA and believes in zero sum games. Which means his trade deals know only winner and loser.
The USA treat you like shit. Same counts for China. Lets hope the EU will show some mercy.
Your imagination is running away with you. No ties, means no compulsion to accept EU diktats. Voluntary trade via WTO is far preferable to a bad trade deal.
And yes, I am happy for the EU not to have to obey UK diktats too.
The WTO is dead. We live in a world where the big fish eat the small ones. And the UK is a incredible small fish.
Notice the Iranian people protesting against the evil regime, perhaps you might not "always be like that"
You have no clue about Iran. No matter what side of politics iranians stand on. Nobody here is a friend of the UK.
The communists hate you for your operation ajax.
the religious ones hate you for operation ajax
The nationalists hate you for invading Iran in WW II and for Operation Ajax.
It doesnt matter who governs Iran. The UK is hated from all factions. Its ironic, there is a higher chance of good Israel - Iran relations.
Infact your worst nightmare would be if the nationalists take over here. You know the imperialists who want reinstall the iranian monarchy. They call you guys "cross eyed british island monkeys".
So be careful what you ask for.
Anti british sentiment always goes here. Any new regime would need to bring the people behind their ledership and the tool they would most likely chose is anti british sentiment.
Keep in mind the UK is an ideal scape goat. USA is to strong, but UK is seen as their poodle. When you want anger the master, you kick the dog.
I wish I could be more confident, but Parliament still has a majority that are outright Remainers and 'pretend' Leavers. That's why we were forced to have a WA that gives the EU some continuing control over our constitution, rather than just Leave and break all ties.
The crunch will come if the government has to choose between a bad free trade deal, or no deal. I suspect we will end up with a bad deal if that situation arises, although I understand Parliament itself won't be given a choice. It will be decided by the government, which still has plenty of Remainers within it.
Do you give the EU the same rights? Break all ties with UK, No trade, ban on financial system. A complete break of all ties and make UK the North Korea of Europe?
Don' try the propaganda route, he was at a vigil for those you murdered
foreign ambassadors go nowhere without invitation.
Well from now on im sure he wont leave his embassy without formal order from authorities.
He got the message delivered very directly, when he was called in today.
Americas poodle is allowed an embassy here, that doesnt mean it must be always be like that.
All this has to be weighed against stuff we do not know and are not permitted to know. It is obvious, because this is how things are done, that the CIA, US top military staff, The White House and the Iranian equivilant will know stuff and are doing things we will never know about. Unless people actually do accept that Iranian government and religious controllers/leaders will be willing to be destroyed by the might of the US war machine. I dont think Iran is so stupid.
Exactly. I have no doubt shady stuff is going on between our Leaders.
Remember Lockerbie? They blamed Gaddafi but Arafat said it was ordered by Iran as response for the Iran Air Shot down. Nobody knows what exactly happened. All just know Gaddafi was blamed, a guy arrested who had nothing to do with it. Gaddafi accepted guilt in Exchange for drop of sanctions.
We're deviating from topic.
Now that Iran's fairy story is fully debunked no doubt we'll see some poor schmuck paraded as the malefactor and being beheaded.
Doesn't bring closure or compensation for the 170+ victims of the trigger happy defences.
Iran already said it will pay compensation for the victims families.
It took USA 30 years to compensate partly the victims of the Airbus they shot down.
That said, they debate here how a solution for all of this is possible.
Iran might find an agreement with the USA to work together on certain fields. Like fighting ISIS and we would also stop to act against Israel.
Those are areas we can agree on. But we will not stop to fight Saudi Terror Groups. We will not stop to proudly defend our interests in the region and do so in a active way.
We want guarantees that in Syria Assad stays in power. We need Assad there and will support him. We will not allow Sunni Wahabi madness spread there. Same counts for Iraq.
Our nuclear program is negotiable. Our rocket program is not negotiable.
We want all sanctions be dropped.
And negotiations will not hold in USA but on neutral ground.
A point that is important for us, all european companies that left Iran after USA installed sanctions must be banned from all future investments.